Scientists: Cleopatra’s Mother and Sister were Probably Black Africans

103 Comments
December 1, 2011 ‐ By

 

This is news to me. For most of my life… let me be real… up until today, I just knew that Cleopatra was Egyptian… African… black.

Well call me ignorant because Cleopatra came from a Greek family. (Finally some clarity as to why they cast Elizabeth Taylor to play her in that 1963 film, “Cleopatra”)

But maybe the lessons I’d learned about Cleopatra weren’t so wrong after all, in 2009 the BBC reported that scientists were suprised to learn that Cleopatra’s blood sister, Arsinoe, had an African mother.

Queen Cleopatra was a descendant of Ptolemy, the Macedonian general who ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great.

But remains of the queen’s sister Princess Arsinoe, found in Ephesus, Turkey, indicate that her mother had an “African” skeleton.

Experts have described the results as “a real sensation.”

A real sensation huh? What is with people, white people specifically, trying to pretend that Egypt is not in Africa? Sure, it’s super close to Saudi Arabia, which is considered the “Middle East” but Egypt is an African nation. This is fact. So why is it so surprising that Cleopatra, the queen of Egypt, would be African?

We’ll get to that later.

Today scientists are stating that Arsinoe and Cleopatra, who were at least half sisters, probably shared the same mother. And this mother was, at least in part, African. And not just African, they believe she was sub-Saharan African. In case you didn’t know, that’s code for black ya’ll.

Interesting indeed. So if Cleopatra’s mom was black that means this woman, Cleopatra, regarded for her beauty, queen…no Pharaoh of one of the most powerful nations in the world at the time, was a black woman. That’s why I think scientists and historians are so surprised by these findings. The lore and legend and even the truth of Cleopatra is so grand that maybe it’s just a little shocking to believe that she was black.

For years Hollywood has used white actresses to play the role of the Egyptian queen, with few exceptions; maybe now that we know better, we’ll do better.

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  • JoySS

    What people are missing here is the historical context. Yes, Egypt is in Africa, but it’s also a Mediterranean country. My father is from Sicily and ancient Greeks and Egyptians also once ruled the village he comes from. People are so caught up on race today, but that time in history, in the Mediterranean, people mixed constantly, invaded and traded constantly. What DNA found was that her sister had BOTH African and European DNA, but everyone wants to claim it’s all on one side. It’s not. And it probably wasn’t for Cleopatra herself, either. Another point is that standards of beauty were very different at that time than they are now. If you look at the coins minted during her reign, she is not what we would call beautiful today, in fact, she has a large, hooked nose, which honestly does look more European, but not in a good way lol. The reality is, this is the ONLY evidence we really have from her lifetime of what she actually looked like. Nubians (modern day Sudanese) were plentiful in Egypt, yes they were black, no question! But so were any other number of people because Egypt is a Mediterranean country!! There were probably Italians, Greeks, Arabs, Blacks, Berbers (who are Native North Africans and not all are black, BTW, many have blond hair) and all other types in between. Such is the Mediterranean and she could well have been a mix of any number of those things. I think people just want to claim her because she was some great beauty, but look at the coins, you will see she actually wasn’t no matter what race she was lol. Just my two cents, I have a master’s in ancient history.

  • psysaac

    Egypt is not sub-saharan. only black people think everyone else is denying being black. “color me ignorant.” you did that yourself.

  • jabargaffniny

    Did anyone actually read the source articles? Not scholarly sources. Please do not make a claim about “what scientists say” unless you have actually read what they say.

  • Factsman

    The Egyptian artwork try to be accurate with the skin of the people presented. In one that I saw, it was in a textbook, they presented middle eastern captives and middle eastern or greek freemen all with light paints, not exactly white but light. Also notice their favor in trying to create realistic sculptures and add-ons detail where they felt particularly due. As found that a vast amount of the women, if not all, had dreads weighed down with ornaments. Cleopatra was depicted in their records/paintings with dark or ebony, if you will, skin. Her hair in the sculptures are dreaded, much like the other African rulers before her, and weighed down by jewels and gold as shown in her wall paints. I have no problem with this at all but historians might, today they make theories on the color of her skin but consider this: if she had passed herself off as an Egyptian goddess, how would the scholars believe her with skin as like ours. Their representations of their gods had all been dark in skin much like themselves. All throughout history, societies depict their gods like themselves and are more prone in trusting in that. She wouldn’t have succeeded if she appeared like the men over seas in which they had already met before. Not to mention that she would have interjected with the painter’s work if he had attempted to portray as the wrong color since that was what kept their legacies. We honestly dont know much of what she looked like but I’m pretty sure the men and women of her time had a pretty good idea.

  • mgee7

    Alexander the; Great was dark skinned-African

  • mgee7

    It is obvious these pompous Caucasian scientist do not like it when blacks are portrayed as powerful kings and queens in power
    throughout history.Well I have news JESUS was most likely dark too.

  • mortree

    LOL – doesn’t this mean she was probably of such mixed race that Black and Greek and Egyptian feautures were indistinguishable and well blended?

    Why not be proud of all racial mixtures? I laugh at the idea that one race can claim exclusive rights to people of obvious and clear racial mixture.

    After all the little bit evidence we have says that her mother was probably of mixed race as well. Concubines to kings were probably not generally fresh “barbarian” slaves but their “culturally adapted” descendants. There is zero evidence of a concubine “diplomatic princess bride” as that would like would have made historical records. Classification by skeletal feautures is a very crude mechanism and at best indicates which racial genes were predominate in the skeleton alone. Almost as useful in overall classification as she was short. Skeletal remains classifical is most useful in separating victims of two distinct groups of homogenous genetic backgrounds (Nordic aid workers and Latin American refugees) — not members of a mixing population. Plus there is specific note in other literature that the skeleton was headless. The skull was reconstructed to meet the researchers bias and what is more newsworthy than a predominately African face? Less science and more popular appeal means $$$ in grants and donations.

    Egypt may sit on the African continent but that edge connected to Asia and Europe has been a melting pot of races since before recorded history.Its been almost 4000 years since archeological records indicated it was filled almost exclusively with blacks. Its been 3500 years since foreigners interrupted exclusive black rule. Eqypt was conquerored or allowed peaceful settlement by sizable groups many times over the last 3500 years.

    Those who try to promote the idea that Eqypt was solid black rule and never conquerored until Alexandra the Great and Islamic Jihad are simply lying about written history in order to exploit BLACK cultural prejudice and pride. The Black/White purity movement is wrong on both sides.

    Usually culture and nuture has more to do with personality than DNA. Personal experience and history tends to determine the drive to accomplish with what tools we have. DNA for supperior intelligence or strength is not clearly associated with any race (every race has its idiot families) and seems a bit random. Only material wealth and social class tend to impact people the way bigots of any race claim & I note those socio-economic factors can be overcome or changed over time and are only incidentally connected to race by accidents of history.

  • Ladydove23

    Yeah still disappointed that white actresses are still playing Cleopatra…. There are plenty of beautiful brown women in the world including myself, that would be great actresses to the world. It would be nice to have a role model that looks like “me” that shares black history… just a little disappointed at the “Rome Series” I love roman history and history in general some things are not serious, but fact is when you don’t have a diverse “work environment” just looks a little bit funny ‘Hollywood”. Not all black women and men are seen as “not camera perfect” just saying. “I really would like to see more Spartacus movies and Rome movies have a little bit more “diverse cultures in the mixture after all it I “America”.
    I know its supposed to be a series based on roman history and all romans where “Caucasians” wink* wink* {because only Caucasians had boats in the trading days}
    Directors and castors please read your history books before you start to make your audience mad at you.

  • kwilly1954

    THERE IS NO DAM REASON WHY BLACK FOLK SHOULD NOT BE DEMANDING THAT AFRICAN AND AFRICAN AMERICAN SCHOLARS BE BROUGHT
    FORTH AND PUT ON THESE SHOWS LIKE THE HISTORY CHANNEL TO GIVE THEIR VIEWS ON WORLD HISTORY . WHITE MEN DO HAVE A ” DIVINE RIGHT ” ONLY
    TO DO THIS . WE CANNOT SIMPLY WAIT AND DEPEND ON THEM TO DO THE RIGHT
    THING ABOUT TELLING THE TRUTH ANYMORE . THEY WILL B.S. EVERY ONE FOREVER IF WE CONTIUE
    TO LET THEM . ANCIENT BLACK HISTORY RECOGNITION IS THE NEXT
    REVOLUTIONARY HUMAN RIGHTS MOVEMENT . BET ON IT .

  • Miablanks

    Cleopatra VII’s mother was her fathers half sister, she was also a Cleopatra, the fifth. The seventh had an older sister that was also named Cleopatra. Their ancestors married each other. They were Greek and ruled for three hundred years. Alexander the Great had conquored Egypt (Greek) After CleopatraV, the mother drowned, the King Ptolemy remarried probably an Egyptian. She bore him three children then died soon after. Cleopatria was a Greek child of incestual marriage. Her half sister Arsinoe ( who CleopatriaVII ordered killed when she came into rule) and two brothers were part Black. Even when Cleopatra married both of her half brothers ( different times, both were killed) she never had children by them. Her first was by Julius Ceasar ( Roman) and Mark Anthony (Roman). After the battle against Octavian (Roman) when she killed herself, her son by Julius Ceasar was killed, ending her family on the throne. She was a GREEK!! Her family had no quams about killing each other to hold the throne.

  • Kart

    Paula Patton should play Cleopatra.

  • Msmykimoto2u

    Like someone said below. She was probably mixed with both Greek and Egyptian heritage to merge kingdoms. Either way please reconsider casting Angelina Jolie as the next Cleopatra! Nia Long would be fantastic! I can picture her with that wig on

  • Kepi

    are we really surprised………wow, i have known this for what 25 years……..derka………

  • xyz

    U wish. More proof of idiotic Afrocentrism.

    • Rose

      Quit being bitter and stop lying to yourself. It’s pathetic…

  • Scompton90

    Of course she would have been part African. The Greek family would have married into the Egyptian royal family to be better accepted to the Egyptian ppls. They would have also adopted Egyptian customs and culture because of accptance. This theory, however, is not new. Many history scholars have said this was more than likely. Egypt was a bustling multicultural civilization. Just like now. Race didn’t really matter it was power and wealth.

  • sallyone

    Umm and lets not forget the Ethopians Jews they found that spoke nothing but pure hebrew..which the media tried to black out but failed!!!!!!

  • sallyone

    Hello she was Egyptian..of course she was black!!!!

  • Amber

    Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought ” race” wasn’t invented until colonialization begin which is fairly recent term. This was how Europeans distinguished themselves from everybody else they encountered. Genetically, and you can’t argue with DNA, we all derive from the same common ancestor from the horn of Africa. Only difference in all people are a few genetic mutations influenced by environment (climate specifically) and how those genes are expressed (phenotypes or how we look, i.e. Light or dark skin, blue eyes etc.).

    Read one of the earliest books, the Bible, and u will see nO reference to “races.”

    In my opinion, Cleopatra is as “black” as Iman and Elizabeth II. We all are.

  • Ms_Sunshine9898

    I don’t know why white people refuse to acknowledge black people’s role in history. Funny how they always insist that the histories greatest achievers were some form of white. . .

  • TruthSeeker

    not only is Cleopatra race in question but her father Ptolemy XII is as well if Im not mistaken his mother was egyptian during those times egyptian were black.

  • guest

    we do not need history to know the first egyptians were black african, everybody in africa were all BLACK at one time until the white man arrived and we got mixed. now we are all africans but we have different nationalities , culture, different types of food. and if egyptians think they are not black or african , they are certainly NOT WHITE and not from america or europe neither.

  • Aguestlyguest

    @d750175075421de4c9924e3e25309602:disqus Actually DNA tests prove Cleopatra had European and African DNA.

    @b63ae8e3d51797731d0a2c4135cda1ce:disqus They could say the same thing about European not equaling white.Just look at Italians and Greeks.Not to mention the fact that when whites discovered aboriginals in Australia they would have babies by them and take them back to Europe and then put them up for adoption and also having Africa and Asia right there to screw around with.Hitler believed one of the groups wasn’t pure blooded on account of having mixed Asian DNA.It’s funny how white people love to tell black people about their continent yet will ignore all the facts of their own not being pure blooded.

  • blah blah blah

    she wasnt black, drop it. if she had a half sister who’s mother was black is proof that she didnt share the same mother. egyptian culture and dynasties were passed through the bloodlines of the father, women didnt have multiple heirs, men did.  so if one pharoah knocked up some black girl and had arsinoe, that means that same black girl didnt get knocked up by another pharoah and her kid went on to become queen of egypt. no, she wouldve had one kid who was not a male and she would have been done, he wouldve moved on to whomever cleopatras real mother was.  whom i really cant believe was black african. when is this gonna stop?

    • GovermentChecks

      WTH Ptolemy XII was Cleopatra dad and her mother is unconfirmed Cleopatra was describe as Tawny and other description to prove that she was not WHITE only but more than likely biracial according to writers of ancient Egypt the findings show that she and her half sister had the same mom but not the same dad meaning she would have been black meaning that Ptolemy XII knocked up one if his Black Maidens which highly possible since they where living in a place predominantly black Ancient Europeans took care of there bastard children because they were so critical of keeping their bloodline going. Don’t mix the hate White Americans have for there bastard biracial children with Ancient Europeans.

      • GovermentChecks

        even the fact that they keep true to her Dark hair feature through out history shows that obviously she was not all Greek who often had lighter colored hair blue eyes pale skin.

        • jessicavoisard30

          Uggghhh that’s not true. If you read Tacitus’ Agricola and Germania (part of the roman empire) he describes the Germans and British as being different. They were the ones with blue eyes and light hair. Greeks and Romans lived in the Mediterranean it’s fairly warm most of the year. And Egyptians were notorious for wearing wigs, that might have even been something that the Romans brought over because they often wore wigs.

  • http://twitter.com/AnimalKingd0m Δη!mαℓ Kιηςdσm♛

    Greek Eventually conquered Egypt. During this time Cleopatra became Queen. Thats why it was regarded that Cleopatra was ‘White’.

  • Jessicavoisard30

    Egypt is in Africa but there was a lot of cultural exchange going on during this time. If you look at the years they were talking about, the roman empire reached to Egypt. The Romans were every where during this time. I’m a black woman and I am not saying for certain Cleo was white or black but mixed people weren’t just invented in modern society.

  • GerTide

    The historical record is very likely correct and they were half, not full sisters.

    Unless those coinage and busts made during Cleopatra’s lifetime of a homely, thin-lipped high-browed caucasoid were fakes.

    • http://www.facebook.com/michaelblack.mcmichaelman.3 Michael-Black McMichael-Man

      Speaking of Ancient Egyptians’ ACCURATE artistic representations of themselves…

  • ololololo

    uhhh the writer of this is historically and geographically challenged.  north africans usually consider themselves white, although its debatable because they really arent black or white. and egypt has been mixed racially for thousands of years.  the sahara shares culture, ethnic makeup, climate and flora/fauna with the middle east, and generally associates themselves as such.  everyone has always known that cleopatra had a greek father and an egyptian mother, although again her mother was probably already mixed races.  and cleopatra was NEVER regarded for her beauty.  she was intelligent and charming, but generally considered to be plain with a large nose.

    • GovermentChecks

      Middle Eastern looking people migrated into Egypt just like they are doing in Ethiopia Today. Ancient Egypt was mostly Africans this can be Google’d even on Wikipedia Europeans have always been good at record keeping and they could not read Egyptian at first a lot of is still hard to translate but evidence show they are known for falsifying records for there own selfish purpose. The racial make up of ancient Egypt was not hidden they just don’t like to acknowledge it just like they don’t like to associate Egypt with Africa. This is when they begin to mixing race but all the great wonders of Egypt was during the time African mostly occupied Egypt. The Greeks moved in on African people not middle eastern all of this is in the History Book SMH.

      • ololololo

        its not that f*cking serious, i was just mad that the author is upholding political boundaries like they werent created by white europeans.  who cares if egypt is africa or not? it isnt anymore, culturally, and we will never know what cleopatra looked like.  she could be anywhere from amber rose to trina in terms of color and features. and it just doesnt matter.

        • GovermentChecks

          ummm Egypt is still Africa what do you mean it isn’t any more people don’t like to acknowledge that its a African Country but it still is. 

        • GovermentChecks

          and yes it does matter because White American robbed us of our history just like Europeans take pride in learning about great European Kings and Queens. Racism for way back them robbed us of Great People rulers that were Africans they would like us to believe we were nothing but primitive slaves but this is not true Our Ancestor Contributed to Ancient History this is known that Egypt is one the world greatest wonders and for centuries they left the our Ancestry out of the equation or did  not acknowledge us at all this needs to stop the lies the falsified records etc needs to be exposed the reason some white have a sense of entitlement is because of history because while all our kids are learning is school is slavery when it comes to there heritage but really we also come from inventors, kings, queens, intelligence etc…. acknowledging Africa’s present in ancient history would do wonders for Africans and Blacks all around the world. Don’t act like people don’t see us as nothing put primitive decedents of slaves only when there is much more to our history.

      • ololololo

         this was made during her lifetime

    • Nawaz_shrf

      Why is this topic up for Debate?First of all,Africa is not our Home.its our Throne.American Blacks are the Children Of Israel.That’s the biggest secret the White Devil has kept from Blacks.Every woman/Man in the Days of Ancient Egypt were black so I don’t signify this nonsense with a response.We are the first humans so what’s to Argue?There is Jo such thing as the Middle East.If so,where the Middle South,North,or West?All that is Africa.All black people need to read the 11 curses of Ya.And they will see why we are in this position because we our Ancestors broke his Covenent.So he cursed us in the process.

      • GovermentChecks

        Sorry anytime Black People are rejected they find something else to attached themselves to. This claim that  Black Americans are all decedents from the children of Israel is crazy. Do I believe the COI was sold this tribe into slavery YES but along with other West Africans and buy the time Slavery was over most Blacks are part West Africans….. Maybe Part of the Tribe from the Children of Israel and Part Caucasian. SO STOP with the antics. Just because of the Riff between Africans and American Blacks that don’t mean you don’t have African Ancestry and that no reason to go fooling blacks to take on this new Israelite Religion like they did with the Muslim religion so now the Muslim world looks at black Muslims as a joke and are rejecting them now a group of people go running to this. If people want to be a Israelite fine but its insults our intelligence to pretending we are all COI and not a part of Africa is not only crazy but impossilbe to prove scientifically. Plus the fact that Humanity Evolved from African it is more than likely this tribes migrated from Africa with those features.

  • ay

    I never knew Cleopatra was known for her beauty, I heard she was unattractive based on our standards today.

  • Pfeiffer87

    I think they were surprised cause they thought she was greek, not everything is about white people hatin black people… Historians (mostly) happen to be some of the most liberal people around.

    • Wisdom

      Nobody said it was “about white people hatin black people”. It’s about accuracy and rectifying some aggregious misappropriations historians, artists, movie moguls and many others have made througout the centuries concerning this queen. There is a reason Cleopatra has been eagerly represented as white. 

      Anyways, Pfeiffer 87, this blog caters to the the interests and expressions of Black women. If you’re not one, as I suspect, you should take it down the road and post elsewhere.

      • Wisdom

        Just checked your profile. Thank you for openly stating you are a white woman. 

        Moving along.

  • Kai

    No thinking I know she was half black…. I did a paper on her and her family my freshman year of college and Cleopatra, Arsinoe, and the Ptolemy’s were descendants of King Tut… They did a scan of her sisters head and it her skull resembles Sub-Saharan African aka Black people… I know she was also Greek, it for them to pass her off as just European is a slap in the face… We know she was fair with Greek features but DNA doesn’t lie!

    • Youknowwhatiitis

      How do you think white people feel when their mixed children are considered “black” by thirsty, ignorant, no knowledge of self having negroes?  THe term “black” means status not race.  The three main races in the human species are Caucasoid, Mongoloid, and Negroid..I ain’t never here of “black” as a race.

  • bumble b

    KMT. Kemet. Land of black. And let the church say, Amen…Ra.

    • http://twitter.com/AnimalKingd0m Δη!mαℓ Kιηςdσm♛

      i just googled ‘Kemet”. Kemet was ‘Black’ in egyptian. and the egptions refered to themselves as kemet along with other tribes/nations
      I read this before years ago, but it slipped my mind. thx

  • WonderingDreamer

    Probably= they were black!  Be careful everyone you know the European patriarchal racist power system will not give you the truth up front!  Read between the lines…

  • Prissy

    LATE , LATE and more LATE. DAMN I wonder what some Blacks do when they are at home learning our history…. GEEZ

  • Miller

    African & African as in black-skin are two different things. I always asumed CP was black because every portrait, statue etc…. we have seen in regards to Egypt had dark brown skin, not brown skin, but dark brown skin, wide noses, and other black features. I also came across a very interesting site recently called “stewartsynopsis ” and they have many old artifacts, statues…..and all these great Egyptians & Pharoahs were black !

    • Wisdom

      Yes Indeed.

  • alkebulan

    charlie, i presume you are caucasian?

    • charlie

      whether i am or not doesn’t matter. 
      i don’t care if cleopatra is black or not. but as someone who studies africa, it’s annoying when people assume that all africa is black or that it always has been black. it’s a diverse continent that has been to many different peoples for thousands of years. that was my point.
      egypt is in africa, yes. egyptians are thus africans, yes. but being african does not automatically mean black. i’m jus sayin.

      • Colliz6

        Yes not all Africans are black because a handful of white people came to Africa to rape the land cause there is much gold and diamond there. They’re in the minority and don’t count. African is a black continent and always will be.

        • Scompton90

          Africans raped and pillaged eachother for thousands of years before Europeans even thought to step into Africa. All cultures that lived close to eachother had some type conflict and war, all over the WORLD. Yes it’s sad the as black and African ppls we were raped, kidnapped, and exploited. But we where and aren’t the only culture to have experienced that. Stop blaming whites/europueans all the time. It’s a weak excuse.

          • Cristalexi

            If you paid more attention to the conversation you wouldn’t get so defensive. The conversation is whether Cleopatra was black or white and some people are saying that Egypt is a country of white or lighter skinned people, while others are saying it’s part of Africa and so Egypt at one time was a country of black people. Colliz6 was just saying that the reason why there are white people in Africa now is because white people went there and raped, kidnapped, stole land, etc. It’s true that Africans have committed the same despicable atrocities too but they’ve never gone to other continents and tried to take over by raping, kidnapping, stealing land, etc. Unfortunately, Europeans are the only continent of people who have tried to take over the world, and unfortunately for non-whites Europeans continue to do it by whitewashing everything, including history.

      • HARDMIKE

        Egyptians had the means and methods to depict themselves as they truly were, and for the most part, that depiction has been of people with skin with melanin and wooly hair that couldnt be attributable to any other race group. You can try and deny this, but they did not depict themselves as white or arabs. They depict themselves as black africans, and white europeans have always hated this fact, which is why the noses were smashed off of the sphinx and various egyptian rulers. Sorry, but europeans didnt do much until about 5,000 years ago, and now they want to “own” math, science, philosophy and all other advanced human processes, when there is CLEAR UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE THAT THE MESO-AMERICANS, INDO-ASIANS, ASIATIC-AFRICANS, And AFRICANS WERE FAR MORE ADVANCE THAN THEM. Just look at the monolithic stone structures these “primitive” people built using math science and astronomy hundreds of years before it was discovered by Europe. Its not some mystery how these structures were built and who built them, but if the truth was told, Whites would have nothing to “pride” themselves on, except for the barbarianism they have shown.

  • SheSpeaks

    Egypt has some the worlds greatest mysteries by far the  most fascinating place in Ancient history of course they don’t want to give credit to a True African but there is no way in Ancient Egypt that no Dark Africans did not live there and contribute to its History. They need to stop acting like some of the kinds and queens where not African. Climate would have not produced pale skin anything plus the fact all mankind came from Africa so way back then I don’t believe Egyptian resembled what we see today. I understand a lot of people migrated to Egypt and that’s why they been trying to justify why they think she was Greek but as we all know  it was common back then to changed your identity look at Italian born Napoleon Bonaparte who lived as a french man and changed his name to reflect it. It makes perfect since that African Cleopatra may have lived like she was Greek but was not.

    • Weslyn

      I agree with a lot of what u said, and it was also my feeling that she was at least part African because of how eagerly she adapted to Egyptian life/culture according to most historical accounts. I think people also forget about Nubia or Kemet (lower Egypt? where they clearly were identified as African. This is one of the places where they found antibiotics in the old bones so they believe that these people could have been very knowledgeable about medicine, etc.

    • GerTide

      The problem is Egypt is situated in the meeting point between Africa, the Middle East and Europe and over the course of literally thousands years people came from all these places and took over Egypt at one point or another. Genetically, pharoahs from different dynasties (that is, different bloodlines) have registered across the board as far as redheaded whites like Ramesses the Great (or for that matter Cleopatra) to very sub-saharan Djoser, who built the first step pyramid or the Hyksos dynasty, with the vast majority of the 3600 years of Egyptians then and now having a high degree of swirling.

      Meanwhile, it’s like if a thousand years from now archaeologists came to the ruins of the White House and found a picture of Barack Obama and concluded that the Founding Fathers were black, then some other people started yelling that they were wrong about the Founding Fathers and that therefore Obama was actually a white president.

      • Simplyloulou

        You are very very smart! :-)

      • HARDMIKE

        Ramses wasnt white, nor was he red headed, there isnt a single depiction of him that shows him that way. Hair color has never been an indicator of race, and its well known that not only does the mummification process changes hair color, but Egyptian royalty was well known to dye, color and wear wigs over their hair.
        I guarantee your source of information is National Geography, a publication that has done nothing but try and prove that egyptians were white, and not an “African Culture”, but a “European One”, this is well documented. National Geography is the same publication that stated the new face of King Tut is a “white one”.

        • GerTide

           Lemme cite TourEgypt for you

          “Of course, we have a better idea of his looks as an old man from his
          mummy, which has a very prominent, long, thin, hooked nose set in a
          long, narrow, oval face with a strong jaw. He was large for an ancient
          Egyptian, standing some five foot seven inches (1.333 meters) tall, and
          it has been suggested that he shows many Asiatic traits, which might
          also be recognizable in the mummies of Seti I and Merenptah.

           

          Interestingly, the mummy’s gray hair had been died red, and indeed,
          modern technology has proven that in his youth he was a red head, which
          was also not a common trait of ancient Egyptians.”

          Egypt then, much like Egypt now and much like America, is a mutliracial society. Deal with it..

    • Whitney Danielle Pyant

      Except she was Greek. She born into a Greek family who ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great died. Her father was a general in his army

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1571004174 Dejonnee Roder

    lol DUh! This reminds me of a debate about the Queen of Sheba and King Solomon. 

    She too was black, her followers were Jewish..Halie Berry portrayed her in the 90’s movie..

    History.. gotta love it!

  • IllyPhilly

     Most Egyptians and Moroccans act like they’re not really Africans. Number one, Neffertiti was the beauty queen, Cleo was the Superhead. She was mugly greedy skank. Men “loved” her because she was good at sex, point blank.

    • Jmagic26

      Thats because the majority of northern African countries are considered Middle eastern countries.

      • BNM

        how????????????????????

  • Diva Nyla

    Love the article….I am in no way surprised…I already knew…but I will be glad when the rest of the world accepts this

    • Sugar_Spice

      If they ever accept it

  • F3ral Anarchy

    probably?!  she was AFRICAN!  smh

  • charlie

    This is interesting. But I don’t get the thing about blaming whites for claiming Egypt isn’t African. I feel like white people do understand Egypt is in Africa, but what YOU have to understand is that North Africa and Southern Africa are very different worlds with different cultural histories and races. So to assume that Cleopatra was black would be a little silly because ethnically, not all Africans are black. Algerians are still African but they’re not ethnically the same as people who come from Angola.

    In fact, not all black Africans are racially the same. Ethiopians are a lot different ethnically than Zimbabweans. Someone needs a lesson in African civilization, clearly.

    • Guest

      Bottom line they are all African first. Stop with the racial and ethnic semantics. When people talk about European royalty people only say He or She is English, French, etc first and foremost way before you talk about the ethnic background if its even mentioned. No one says the Queen of England is of the Germans. Which she is. They say she’s English PERIOD. When I go to Europe alI I see is Europeans. Based on the country Im in I respect the French or Danish etc. But they are all European first and foremost. Only the English are from England because they are not apart of the EU nor do they claim to be. The English will tell you in a heartbeat that they are not European. 

      Egypt is in Africa, period! Whether the people are light,bright,damn near white or as dark as night they are all African. Europeans made the division of the north and south parts of Africa. Unfortunately too many North Africans have drunk the Euro BS that they are different. Same when the British and Dutch went into India. If we divide these whole people we can rape them of there resources. Hence the struggles of Light skin and Darker skin Indians.  Or Indians from the south and north. Sound familiar.

      Please do us a favor and do not spew separatist views created by the Europeans and the English. Even though Cleopatra was of mixed race she ruled an African state. She also was one of the last rulers of Egypt when Egypt was basically a shell of its former self. Hence there was really nothing left to rule. All the rulers prior to that were all from African states from the south of Egypt

      In conclusion Africa and India knew that there country was diverse and had different state to state cultures as we do in the US;But it was not until Europeans came and created the problems the racism and division out of ignorance on the part of Europeans. Again the European rule of divide and conquer has gained them access to some of the worlds greatest achievements that have not nor will ever be European or English. Remember after Rome, Europe fell into the dark ages. Because all that Roman knowledge was based on African and Middle Eastern living and cultures. Once the African societies vanished Europeans went back to being cave people. Stop being greedy.

      • Simplyloulou

        mmh actually I disagree as an ” african” who grew up in multiple countries in Europe, Europeans do not feel as homogeneous as you state, some one from Danemark has maybe more in common with a German than a Portuguese,(just watch a soccer game and see their national proud) and i can assure you that a Portuguese doesn’t feel any particular affinity with a Norwegian and even less someone from Spain and they share a border! they do not speak the same language,don’t eat the same food ect… and in all my travels only North American refer to people as Europeans or Africans, if you go in France no one will accept Africa as a background they will actually insist on you saying where? Congo? Gabon? Soudan? And no it’s not because we are Africans that we are all alike, we do not eat the same thing, speak the same language and have the same culture we do not even all look alike, as one of the commentator said there is a physical difference between someone from Senegal,Ethiopia and Congo,It has nothing to do with post colonialist BS, I actually find it very offensive when people reduce it to it’s just Africa, you don’t tell an Indian and a Chinese   it’s just Asia.The color of our skin is what we have in common, our struggle is what we have in common, but what Colonialism did is trying to making us forget our  pluralism (which is a blessing) by forcing us to speak french, english, or portuguese, I am very happy to pin point where my ancestors came from and speak their language and know the history of my tribe. Long time ago we were all able to leave together with all our difference (yes there was wars but they had nothing to do with ethnicity,more about real estate and resources)
        These are not separatist view,denying someone of their culture and reducing to a race and a continent is Imperialist.
        But at the end of the day we are all human with our own specificity! So yeah to Pluralism!
        Ps: I was born in Congo,grew up in France and now leave in Canada !!!

        • charlie

          you’re so right. thank you.

        • Argent Reivich

          Thanks so much! It is hard to see people who never set foot on our continent to fantasize so much (and so wrongly) about it. Grew up in France too and to hear that a dane and a french consider themselves european first? crazy! :)

      • Scompton90

        Actually the Indian caste system has been in place for 1000’s of years. It’s part of the Hindu religion. It has to do with reincarnation and how you nice up or down in your future life according to your karma. Also, when India was conquered by light skinned ppls they incorporated the darker skinned vs lighter skinned into the local religion which became Hinduism, 1 of the oldest religions still practiced. True the British and Dutch used it, but they were just taking advantage if what was already there. Just because the problems seem similar doesn’t mean it’s true.

      • Anne

        While I agree with the spirit of your comments, your India facts are totally wrong. European colonialism did not divide India. India iteself was not a united country; it was a region made up of city-states and kingdoms. The Mughal Empire covered much of India before Europeans arrived, but that, for example, didn’t touch my part of South India at all. Shadeism and colorism existed in India before that tbh.

    • Thesenutz

      Lol, Africa was ALL Black till the envasions of the Europeans and the Arabs there didnt get there till AD. BC before the conquers like Alexander the Barbarian it was solely a Black nation. READ A BOOK!! OUT!!!

      • Simplyloulou

        actually you are kind of wrong… but any ways, the definition of race and all that comes with it is quite new if you compare it to the History of humanity, even the notion of continent, people use to define themselves by land and /or tribe. Never the less as far as ancient Greece the concept of race did not exist, people from my ethnic group are light skin and they have been light skinned because my ancestor use to trade with arabs. Any ways…if the debate is on the fact that the first human was African hence black.. than every one has black in them…I actually don’t care that  Cleopatra was black or white, she was not a ”real” egyptian and not a real Pharaoh.or pharoahness???? Her family didn’t even spoke ”Egyptian” but greek, so who cares… she actually didn’t do anything that sleep with Ceasar and Marc-Anthony, Egypt still went to Rome,so all that for this??History is a funny thing.

        • HARDMIKE

          Light skin and straight hair comes from breeding with neanderthals, the albino trait was magnified by breeding with them. In fact, sub-Saharan blacks do not have neanderthal dna. Look it up. History is not a funny thing, its a made up thing. Civilization and modern humans are older than 6000 years old. The Egyptian Sphinx and pyramids have weathering that indicates they were built at least 20,000 years ago, and that the great deluge (Noah’s Flood) actually happened and it wiped out the previous civilizations and most of their existence. Its whites who conceal and hide this information, the ancient greeks were black, its even depicted in their artwork, most people dont even know that ancient greece wasnt all white like it is today, heck even the ruins that are white werent white when they were built, they were brightly colored.

          • Argent Reivich

            Neanderthal DNA? the great flood? ancient greek being black? lay down the crack pipe my friend. As an african I can tell you there’s nothing common between us and the greeks!

            Smh.

    • Huh

      egyptians wasnt arabic or whatever they are called to being with   they were black. i have a friend who is mixed  his father is black egyptian. 

      • Ms Thompson130

        there are black egyptians and arab egyptians

    • Tdrayton09

      i was in grad school with a white woman who didnt know egypt was in africa until she was sent there by the military. They are often taught it is in the Mideast.Now, there are SOME Egyptians who dont caim African acenstry and they dfinitely have some issues regarding that and I know first hand living over here.

      • GerTide

        Egyptians consider themselves their own race, as do many other African cultures. 
        And to be fair, Egyptians are far closer linked with say Jordanians or Arabs on a genetic, linguistic and cultural level then they are with say Khoisan or Pygmies.

        • GovermentChecks

          Egypt Today is Consist of Arabs. Ancient Egypt was African Decendents this can easily be verified search Ancient Egypt Race History even Wikipedia confirms that Arabs did not takeover Egypt til much much later in history.

  • Nefijones1

    In this case I believe that scientiest and historians were not surprised at this information.  They very possibly very likely already knew that Sub-Saharan African blood was also in the bloodline.   Meaning the Cleopatra ant others at that timeframe were a racially mixed people.

    Whites and other races (even the recent Egyptians) are hell bent on insisting that Egypt is not part of Africa just so they can claim it and say Egyptians are not black or at least  have some degree of blackness – when it (Egypt) is clearly part of the same country (Africa).  Just look at the map!   I find this to be an insult. 

    In this case they know better and will likely never do better.  Blacks will have to do there own movie and cast it correctly to portray Cleopatra the way she possibly.   Where is Spike Lee!

    • charlie

      Africa is not a country, unfortunately. It’s a continent. A very diverse continent.

      Just because Afghanistan and Korea are in the same continent does not mean that Afghans and Koreans are the same ethnicity. This concept is really simple.

      • IllyPhilly

        So I hope you don’t loop Nigerians and Ghanians in the same group (Africans) I hope you call them by the ethnicity.

        • Jmagic26

          I think you mean nationalities.

          • charlie

            No. I don’t mean nationalities. Afghans are a Turkic people. Koreans are Han. Someone from South Africa who speaks Zulu comes from different ancestries than someone in Senegal who speaks Wolof.

      • DJA1

        YEA THEY ARE THEY ARE ASIAN ONLY THE UNITED STATES SAY MIDDLE EASTERN BUT IF YOU ASK A PERSON FROM AFGHANISTAN THEY’LL SAY THEIR ASIAN

        • mortree

          Actually it depends if you are talk politics and DNA or geographically location.

          In truth they are ALL Asian if you are talking only geographic continential location.

          There are some tribes in Afghanistan with distinctly Middle Eastern DNA. But then other tribes are more Mongolain. Its a big source of the internal wars.

          The Middle East is a political-cultural term with only mild geographic implications. Even the racial-cultural identity is a bit fuzzy to any given culture. Are Persians in or out? But generally Middle East means Islamic with Arab style political leanings in its broadest commonly accepted meaning — with geographic boundaries roughly corresponding to the remaining Jihad conquered lands.

          Thus whether Afghanistan belongs to the Middle East actaully depends on WHO in Afghanistan you talk to. Some tribes and leaders will clearly identify with the Middle East. Others with different DNA or religious views will vemently deny an association.

          In general the most infamous and active political group the Taliban tries to split the middle. They clearly have ties to the Middle East via terrorist groups and other world views. But due to their remoteness and partial isolation, the Afghan clerics and other political leaders like to claim their political independence from the intense clerical feuding of the rest of the Middle East. Basically the Taliban clerics are much more in agreement (fundamentalists) and more modest in their ambitions (e.g. better to be the big fish in your own small pond than small fish from a small washhole alongside the huge river of Islam worldwide.)

    • Thesenutz

      Egypt or the proper name Kamet was a AFRICAN NATION. All the Nile Valley Civilizations were. Africa is the 1st Civilization in recorded History. BLACK PEOPLE STAND UP!!!

      • kwilly1954

        Traditional Western Eurocentric White Supremacist doctrines can be defeated and destroyed by discovery and science.
        It behooves the African anthropologist to use every scientific discipline that modern technology has to offer, in the tradition of Chiekh Anta Diop, to acquire the correct perspective on African high culture and civilization. Now is the time for Africans to wrestle Egyptology from the clutches of the distorters of our civilization, by a more forceful and public attack on their lies. We must expose to the light of truth, every falsification and every claim of a European or Asian origin of Kemit and re-establish the link with our ancestors for the sake of our children.

        • mortree

          true science and history is merely interesting stuff that happened to other people.

          Whenever science has a political agenda it degenerates into a factory for distortions and propaganda. The slim evidence of archeology and anthropology is very easily bent and manipulated to say things that it really does not support. Usually the state of answers should be “I do not know” or “it appears to be one of the following possibilities”. It should not matter which possibility a scientist personally favors.

          Even when science knows that there are inaccuracies and past propaganda — it cannot productively investigate with the attitude of finding different answers. Because those unwilling to merely test and question past evidence tend to create their own fantasies… rather merely see what is actually there. The cartoon movies Ice Age are as connected to evidence as some scholarly fantasies…and that only common sensibilities actually say whether its accepted theory or not.

          Fantasy recreations for the popular masses should probably be clearly labels as such with a narrative disclaimer of “possible but not yet supported by many details”.

      • Lucent

        Actually Mesopotamia is the first civilization in recorded history. That’s not in Africa…

    • habbibi

      As an african women married to an egyptian man, I have to disagree. Egyptians proudly identifies themselves as africans. Don’t believe the hype!! Just visit  the country and you will see.

      • Nanaknickers3 .

        I used to know three Egyptian sisters; they looked Hispanic but if you asked they would say they were African. They were proud to claim Africa.

    • GAT TURNER BLAAM BLAM!!

      Micheal Jackson did it….in his video ‘Remember the Times’………he was only able to do so, because sony denied him help to make a movie portraying Black people before they fell from Civilization…………Isn’t that tight?!?!?

      They can count the stars, they can count the sands…………That is how many of us have been around…….and will always be……..666……6 protons…..6 electrons……..6 neutrons……equals MELANIN

    • Emon

      Right. Whites in the past covering up their lies so others in the future can rediscover the truth that by now has been an unconsciously implemented in minds of society today. I too take this as an insult.

    • mortree

      Spike Lee will do a movie with a movie with Pam Grier or some younger counterpart. Interesting but also not reflective of likely historical truth as to Cleopatra’s appearance or racial mixture.

      A young Hallie Berry might not be too far off. As any mixed race couple knows the exact shade of Black is not very predictable unless your family has had prior mixed couples among your siblings or close cousins.

      But honestly the look and shades won’t be right without considerable Greek blood from near Macadonia. And if race concerns you that much you should observe that Greeks from the North tend to have a different distinctive look.

      Sorry but sitting on the African continent does not transform people into pure African blood. Unlike the interior African lands the Eqyptian coast is ALSO Mediterranian and Middle Eastern land which does not share the traditional isolation of the African continent.

      As a result after 4000-5000 years the Eqyptian people maybe very dark but even before Alexander the Great there was lots of Arab blood from numerous past conquests and mass immigration of very trades and peoples. Plus if taken out of Eqypt to high temperate latitudes for several years…most Eqyptians prove to be considerably lighter than traditionally accepted. Eqyptian black is very much like Native American redskin or cowboy leather brown.

      ….so exactly how much time did Cleopatra spend in the sun because that would considerably affect how black she looked versus a 100% indoor Cleopatra might be nearly as light a Mariah Carey depending how the DNA mix went.