All Articles Tagged "sheryl underwood"
Sheryl Underwood, A Rape Survivor, Defends Nate Parker: “He’s Given His Life To Christ. He’s Become A Better Person”
We told you that Nate Parker’s film Birth of a Nation didn’t produce as many ticket sales as predicted this past weekend. With the conversation focused on Parker’s past, specifically the allegations of rape against him in college, it seems that the story of Nat Turner was overshadowed. Many who initially planned to support the film, no longer wanted to. But one person who did see the film and is supporting Nate Parker is The Talk‘s Sheryl Underwood. Despite being a woman who was sexually assaulted, Underwood said on the show this week that at least Parker has tried to change for the better. She believes that if we’re going to forgo supporting his work and hold him to these allegations forever, we all need to do the same when it comes to acclaimed filmmakers like Roman Polanski and Woody Allen. Yes, it’s that conversation again…
“I think this is an odd time for this to be the time that they judge this man on this. He made a movie, Beyond the Lights, where he was some cop protecting some pop singer, and this never was brought out. And now it’s being brought out when he makes the most iconic film, the most thought-provoking film for some of us that believe that Nat Turner was a revolutionary,” Underwood said. “I also think when you talk about this, why is it that Roman Polanski can do whatever he wants to do and that was a 13-year-old child? Woody Allen? But I guess my feeling about this is, from a person who has been raped, one thing we need to take a moment to understand is the long-lasting devastating effect of rape on everyone involved. The young lady who could not move forward in her life that felt the only way to end that pain was to take her life. So when you talk about a movie that seems to artistically portray the violation of people who were considered property, then you’re talking about a political devastation, not just a sexual devastation that was supposed to motivate Nat Turner to do what he did. So for everybody in this room who does not understand, at the end of the day, his life has been changed, but he has evolved. He’s given his life to Christ. He’s become a better person. If you want to hold him to that, then you need to hold everybody else that’s done something to the exact same standard.”
Underwood has spoken in the past about being raped right after college. Her abuser was never caught. Still, she told PEOPLE that everything she went through made her a better, stronger person.
“I wouldn’t change anything in my life, because I have learned so much about myself.”
Check out Underwood’s comments on the controversy surrounding Parker below and let us know whether or not you agree with her.
It’s great that Sheryl Underwood went on national television and begged the Black community for forgiveness, but my question is when is the community going to apologize to her?
What I mean is that earlier this week, Underwood sat with her co-hosts on The Talk and apologized again for comments she made previously about natural Black hair. More specifically, in 2013, Underwood called model and “Project Runway” host Heidi Klum’s decision to save clippings of her biracial children’s hair as a personal keepsake, “nasty.” And she also said:
“I’m sorry, but why would you save afro hair? You can’t weave in afro hair. You will never see us at the hair place like, look here what I need is this curly, nappy, beaded…that just seems nasty.”
She not only apologized and explained how she had learned some things about herself since then, but she appeared on the show without a wig or a weave on. That’s right: she did a big natural hair reveal, which at this point is becoming a pretty trite film and television plot device.
I know. That’s shady, but somebody had to say it…
Anyway, what’s interesting about her apology to the community is that she also took the opportunity to talk about the cold reception she received after making that horrible joke. On the show, she said that she was called names like “coon,” “Uncle Tom” and “HN,” which is the TV-appropriate language for calling someone a “house negro.”
Underwood said that while she was personally hurt by the words, she also understood the hurt feelings behind them. In particular, feelings of betrayal for talking bad about natural Black hair on a show with an audience of predominately White people.
But while Underwood may get it, I don’t quite understand why any of that was okay. In fact, I don’t even know why she felt the need to apologize to the Black community at all.
Granted, it was an awful joke. But what is even more awful is that this is how Underwood not only felt about Black hair in general, but her natural hair specifically.
Still, I too remember the reaction she received. In fact, I wrote a piece about it. And in addition to calling her a “coon” and “HN,” she was also called “black gorilla” and told she looked like Wesley Snipes. And many of those comments came out of the mouths of other Black people.
I said then about those racial comments:
“It seems like Underwood is not the only one here with some internalized hate. I wish I could say that these have been isolated comments, but these reactions have pretty much been noticeably consistent since the start of the controversy. And it’s not just Twitter. I have been reading some severe dirt-dragging based solely on Underwood’s looks throughout the blogosphere. It’s quite interesting that those, who in their defense of natural hair, are using such racially charged and inflammatory language as “monkey,” and “gorilla” or making fun of her black gums (which likely is caused from having excess melanin in the skin) and comparing her features to that of a man.”
Was Underwood wrong for the joke? She sure was. Did she need to be checked? Yes. But we should also keep in mind, Underwood likely held those negative feelings about her hair because of a long history of people judging her based on her hair texture as well as the color of her skin. And I am willing to bet that some of those judgments were just as nasty and vile as what was said to her in “defense” of natural hair.
And although it is very honorable that she has once again addressed those comments, she needs to stop apologizing and making excuses for those folks who called her such vile things. And instead, folks need to be flooding her mentions with apologies of their own.
We all remember the comments Sheryl Underwood made about natural hair two years ago on CBS’ “The Talk.”
For those who don’t, she was referencing Heidi Klum saving her biracial children’s hair when she said:
“Why would you save afro hair? You can’t weave in afro hair! No one walks into the hair place and says ‘Look here, what I need is curly, nappy, beady hair. That just seems n*sty’ “
Afterward, Underwood’s co-host Sara Gilbert stated that she too, saves locks of her children’s hair. Underwood responded:
“Which is probably that beautiful, long, silky stuff. That’s not what an afro is!”
They were hurtful and seemed to play into the same negative portrayals and perceptions about Blackness. That was two years ago and Sheryl apologized almost immediately afterward.
But today, on the show she broached the topic again, revealing her own natural hair in the process. She told the audience that she’d spent the last year going natural and decided today was the day to debut her curly fro on the show. And, in my opinion, she looks amazing.
In addition to the reveal, she also wanted to express the fact that she understood how her comments affected the Black community.
“I made some statements that were not only wrong but they hurt our community. Black people are very sensitive about a discussion about our hair…And to come out of the mouth of a very proud Black woman, I was wrong. And I wanted to take the time to apologize, especially in the forum where this discussion occurred…People were hurt. They were hurt that I had the platform on the number one network and that I made a big mistake on the number one network.”
Underwood mentioned that in response to her words, many in the Black community called her a coon, an Uncle Tom, a House Ni**a and much more. And she said that she understood it.
“I think that when you hide behind something that you are a coward. And I wanted to show that I was strong enough to take the truth about what people were saying and on this network and in this chair to say, I am so sorry to my people for hurting you. And I’m asking you for forgiveness and I will work hard to make it right.”
We were all deeply disturbed and troubled to hear that Josh Duggar, now 27, had molested five young girls, including four of his sisters when he was 14-years-old. There were police reports to corroborate the story and later we learned that TLC, the network who aired “19 Kids and Counting,” for nine seasons, knew of Josh’s past issues with molestation.
When news hit, in addition to calls that asked for the show to be canceled, there was the news that the Duggar family was going to be sitting down with Megyn Kelly for an interview with Fox News. In this 30 minute interview, both Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar revealed that Josh initially touched his sisters over their clothes while they were sleep. He was the one who told his parents what he had done the first time.
It wasn’t until the third time, when Josh admitted again that he had touched one of the couple’s younger daughters, while she was awake, that they decided it was time to take action. They spoke to friends and sent him to an unlicensed, Christian training center. When asked by Fox’s Megyn Kelly why they didn’t seek treatment for Josh after the first incident they said that “as parents you’re not mandatory reporters.” They almost mentioned that they thought, initially, that most of this was about a young man’s curiosity. But they did feel that at this Christian counseling center, the man had really touched their son’s heart.
There was also an interview with two of Josh’s victims, his sisters Jill and Jessa Duggar. They said that they didn’t remember the assault because they were both asleep. Both Jill and Jessa said that they had forgiven their brother and felt violated by the media for bringing their childhood molestation into the forefront.
Sheryl Underwood of CBS’ “The Talk,” felt like the parents had made excuses for Josh and his behavior, twelve years ago, and had actually re-victimized their children by not doing enough to protect their daughters from their son. She had a particular interest in this story because she had endured this type of abuse in her own life.
Here’s what she had to say.
“Let me just say this. I’m probably the only person at this table that went through that. And I went through that, 3,4,5 years old. You know something is wrong. And if nobody listens to you, and nobody is going to stop it, whether I’m sleep or not–I learned how to stay up as long as I could. I may sleep at school because nobody’s going to protect me.
Aisha you said that it didn’t help them to do this interview. What it really did was it helped us, the world to see what happens to people when they’re in some type of family structure, when the people you’re supposed to trust to protect you seem to be the coconspirators in your violation. Seem to rationalize sexual assault and molestation.
And the thing about this that hurts so much is you feel that you have no help. You feel that nobody is listening or you’re being blamed or this is something that kids do. And I thank God for my older brothers who took an action on my behalf, let me just say that.
It took me years to have to learn to love myself because I felt that I was worthless. I felt that I was less than. I felt that I deserved this or brought it on myself because of what was coming toward me from my parents. These parents are wrong.
And for the years that I couldn’t accept love and I couldn’t accept what I was made to have: the beauty of a great relationship with someone who loved me back because I didn’t love myself. Families gotta protect families and don’t rationalize violation.”
Later, Underwood spoke to “Entertainment Tonight,” saying that perhaps the girls really do remember more than they’ve told their parents because she still struggles with it today as an adult.
First, I was kind of mad at myself because I couldn’t control it. But then I was like ‘Maybe it’s not for you to control. Maybe this family, maybe they need to see what this is still doing to me. So you think your children don’t know and you think your children don’t remember but maybe they haven’t. Because I can’t control it when it’s not even about me.
Something was screaming in me, Help somebody else. Don’t let somebody else go through what you went through alone.
I think [them defending their brother] is a defense mechanism. You need to put it square where it was. Your brother did something wrong, to you. And, the way I’m looking at this, your family, let you down.
For the ladies! Normally, when I think about male strippers I’m more tickled than I am titillated but this video of Tyson Beckford wining and grinding up on Sheryl Underwood might make me take a different stance.
In promotion for the upcoming film, Chocolate City, Beckford treated “The Talk” co-host when she was in Las Vegas this past weekend. And he didn’t keep it PG. The model turned actor came out in a towel with no drawers on y’all.
Instead, he allowed Sheryl to put them on for him…but not before he gave her a full eyeful of his man meat and the audience a glimpse of his tight, chocolatey booty.
Sheryl has been blessed.
But she also was a little freaked out by the whole thing, especially since it was all going down in public, on stage.
Take a look at the video below and let us know what you think. Is this too much or does the video have you wishing you were in Sheryl’s position?
We have never talked about Sheryl Underwood this much before. But ever since she revealed her secret on “The Talk” about fellow comediennes talking badly about her, everyone’s very interested. Months after her admission the streets are still whispering about it. So when Sheryl stopped by Power 105’s “The Breakfast Club” this morning, she spent a significant amount of time talking about the reason she shared the story in the first place, why she never addressed it with the women personally and the aftermath of it all.
On the initial call
I did not know that people were not checking for me like that. I did not know that I was not on chandelier status. I did not know that. Am I mad? No I’m not because some of us get along and some of us don’t. But I’m not going to let nobody knock me out. I believe that the Lord was telling me ‘Get yourself right.’ Don’t look at nobody else. Look at you. You are the foundation of what’s happening to you.
Why she never addressed it with the ladies
I kind of thought maybe I wouldn’t be able to talk to them and as you can see, I may be right.
On Rickey Smiley saying Sheryl Underwood was not blameless
When you have comedians that say Sheryl Underwood is not pure, she would come in and change the lineup. That’s not what was happening. In my contract, it would say ‘Sheryl Underwood host.’ So I would enforce my agreement, like I saw the men enforcing their agreements. All I was doing was what I learned. I watched Bernie Mac when he was alive. I watched Stevie Harvey. I watched all the men walk in and say ‘That’s not going to happen.’ I’m a boss. I just happen to be a girl. But I’m a boss. I make my money for me. I don’t have people representing me and I’m not going to have no man that I’m sleeping with representing me. Now you make your bones off of me, now you’re mad at me now you take my money and give it to someone else. So how I get everything I got, it’s me.
Me being on CBS that was God opening a door, didn’t even know a job to be had. Now I’m on it. But it’s still me. It’s me orchestrating me.
On working with these women
If I had had an agent on that call and he would have dialed or she would have dialed in early, they may or may not have told me. But I’d still be, ‘La, la, la. I think we cool. Let’s make some movies together.’ I still believe even if you don’t like me, we can still make some movies together.
I thought that what I was doing was telling a greater story was how God corrected me through you all and the last thing I probably should have said was ‘And if I ever hurt you, I’m asking for forgiveness.’
I was being called a liar but you [The Breakfast Club] got the footage saying there was a call.
Has she spoken to them since then?
Not at all. I was not lying. There was a call and things were being said about me.
Why did you do it in front of them– White people.
Why didn’t you keep it in the family. Because it wasn’t about that. It was about a secret that I had been harboring. God said to me, I can’t speak about what God says to other people. God to me, I put you here for a reason, you better do something good with it.
Will I spend my life trying to make amends? Yes, I will. But I think I’ll make amends by becoming a better person. I’ll make amends by not keeping up a comedy gang war.
Is the lawsuit real?
I can tell you this, if there’s an admission that there was a call, there were things said about me. If you still feel you must do this, use your resources in a better way.
I also understand the power of my words. We started with a secret that’s now people use for their Bible study classes.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Sheryl probably shouldn’t have mentioned these ladies’ names. But I tend to agree with her, the greater moral behind her story is that the things people say to take you down, can be used to elevate you. And there is power in hearing your shortcomings if you know how to respond properly. And Sheryl did that.
You can watch the rest of the interview where she talks about her show “The Talk,” her take on the Bill Cosby allegations and what she thinks Black Greek Letter Organizations should be doing about the protesting of police brutality across the country. If you want to her speak specifically about all the comedienne drama, go to the 12 minute mark.
“If I Ever Hurt These Ladies Or Anybody Else, I’m Asking For Forgiveness”: Sheryl Underwood Speaks On Backlash From Her Conference Call Story
Ever since comedienne and “The Talk” co-host Sheryl Underwood shared her conference call story with the world, she’s had to deal with Laura Hayes, Sommore and Adele Givens calling her story an exaggeration, or flat out “bullsh*t.” Just last week, Sommore said that the comedienne has ulterior motives and is a phony. So recently, while on the red carpet at the Soul Train Awards, the Jasmine Brand talked to Sheryl Underwood about the drama, and she decided to clear some things up. I’m not going to pretend like everything she said made sense, but here you go:
Well you know what? I tell you what…God don’t make mistakes, so you just gotta get ready. When the Lord tells you what to do….One thing I should have said was, ‘If I ever hurt these ladies or anybody else, I’m asking for forgiveness. Now there’s been some dispute…I think everybody got a right to their recollection, and then what normally happens is, do you want to go tit for tat, or do you want to move on to where you supposed to be? At the end of the day, what I was really trying to show was first, that there was a powerful group of women who had a top tour like the “Kings of Comedy.” Second, that when you hear things being said, even if you hear them on a conference call, or you hear them anywhere, what you need to do is, take what the lesson is, and perfect yourself, so that’s what I did… If somebody says “Well maybe you need to accouterment yourself, maybe somebody put their foot in your face and beat it to death, and get snatched with some undergarments”– and everybody knows this is not my hair, but this is what we do. Don’t come out the house looking any kinda way. Well, when you hear anything being said about you in any way, first, listen to it. Then correct it, and then go where God wants you to go. I’d love to work with anybody, my job is to help put money in people’s pocket, and the Lord has blessed me with Sheryl Underwood radio,“The Talk,” touring. How does somebody like me that asked the Lord to please stop making Vodka so delicious, end up with the Bishop TD Jakes on a comedy tour? That’s because God is moving me around, and Vodka is delicious, and so is Moscato.
Yeah, I told you it didn’t all make sense, but you get the point: What she remembers about their conversation pushed her to better herself and helped her to get where she is now. That’s all that matters, right? Check out her interview in full below.
Comedienne Sommore Says Sheryl Underwood Is Phony, And Speaks On What She Says Really Happened In That Conference Call
In September, everyone was talking about Sheryl Underwood after she revealed on her talk show, “The Talk,” that comediennes Sommore, Adele Givens and Laura Hayes could be overheard talking very badly about her on a conference call for Queens of Comedy. She received not just sympathy, but cheers from a lot of people because of how she used what mean things she heard to get better as a comedienne and become the co-host of “The Talk.” However, Givens and Hayes called bull on the story, and now, so is Sommore.
In a chat with The Breakfast Club to promote her appearance at the New York Comedy Festival this weekend, Sommore cleared some things up about Underwood’s conference call story when she was asked what the deal was by Charlamagne.
“Sheryl Underwood, Jesus…The thing about it is, I’m a chandelier. I always call myself a chandelier. I don’t hate on nobody. I don’t compare myself to nobody. I don’t compete with nobody else. I just try to be the best me I can be. Miss Underwood was never considered to be a Queen of Comedy. Never. What she was talking about, was the project that we were discussing about going into prisons and doing comedy for inmates. And she overheard a conversation about us. You know, when you’re doing business, when it comes down to the details of things, sometimes you don’t really want to hear all that. Even when an agent is going in to talk about their client, they don’t bring their client with them because some things that are said might not sound good to them. So that’s what basically happened.”
Sommore says that it bothered her that Underwood felt the way she did and put her on blast on the show, but only because at an event right before the conference call story came out, Underwood was being phony towards her. But Sommore made it clear that she is not, and never has been friends with “The Talk” co-host.
“And the thing that bothered me about it was that I seen her about two weeks before she said this on television. And we were at Steve Harvey’s Hoodie Awards, and she did this skit where she called up all the comedians on stage and she was calling me. All the people that was there they can attest to this. She kept saying ‘Sommore come on up on stage’. And I didn’t go. Because first of all, I don’t rock with her like that. And one thing I’m not, I’m not phony. I don’t rock with her like that. And it was weird because people were like,’Where is she? I just seen her?’ I didn’t dip out, I just didn’t move.
It’s not that I don’t like her, I’m cordial to her. I just don’t rock with her like that. Meaning, I’m not getting ready to come up and be part of your skit–for what? You do you, do what you do. So what was crazy was, if you felt that way about me or that I wronged you, why would you invite me on stage? See, I don’t like people that have ulterior motives. I felt like, you’re on TV every single day and you obviously ran out of stuff to talk about. I didn’t even recall the conversation. We were talking about business, it wasn’t even funny. I can’t even imagine it being funny.”
Still don’t know who or what to believe in all of this, but check out Sommore’s convo with The Breakfast Club below. The chat about Underwood starts around the 5:30 mark.
Adele Givens To Sue Sheryl Underwood + Walter Latham Says She Was Never Invited To Be A “Queen Of Comedy”
Last week, Sheryl Underwood shook up some things when she revealed that her fellow, Black comediennes, Sommore, Laura Hayes and Adele Givens talked about her like a dog during a conference call years ago when she was invited, by the tour’s creator, Walter Latham, to participate on The Queens of Comedy tour.
We also reported that when the ladies got wind of the news, they were not happy about it. And then Rickey Smiley came forward and said that Sheryl is not the angel she’s portraying herself to be in this whole scenario.
The plot thickens as the days go by.
Today, the Humor Mill is reporting that Givens is not only disputing Sheryl’s story, she plans to sue Underwood, “The Talk” and CBS.
Givens appeared on the Rickey Smiley Morning Show today and disputed Sheryl’s entire story. She said the tale is a “blatant lie” and “the conversation never happened because [they] were never on a conference call discussing Sheryl.”
Smiley also had a statement from Walter Latham, the tour’s creator, that said he never even invited Underwood to participate on the tour.
Givens also announced that she’s seeking legal representation and plans to sue all parties involved for defamation of character and “anything else her legal team would advise to her that would apply.”
Listen, this whole thing is just cray-zee. If you ask me, there’s probably a little bit of truth behind both stories. And I’m leaning more toward Sheryl’s side. Perhaps, Walter Latham didn’t extend a formal invitation but it’s even more unlikely that Underwood made up the conference call, the insults these ladies flung, unknowingly her way. It’s especially hard to believe that she would sit up on television and get emotional about a completely fabricated story. I just don’t think she has that type of a range as an actress.
It seems far more plausible that the Queens of Comedy would be trying to salvage their reputations and their careers by saying it never happened, especially since there’s no proof.
What do you think happened? Who do you think is lying about all of this?
Am I the only one who felt that Sheryl Underwood’s big reveal during “Secrets Week” on “The Talk” (apparently a time when you are supposed to let the bones fall out of the closet for ranting…er…cleansing) was anything but inspiring?
In fact, a more appropriate description for the reveal is diabolical. I mean, don’t get it twisted: Coming from a place of constant rejection to a place of achievement is definitely worthy of praise. And I get it. There is no better revenge than being able to rub your success in the faces of those who tried to move you off of your path.
But in spite of being praised for her grace, integrity and rising above the fray of the other comediennes’ alleged hatred, Underwood’s scheme was a page ripped straight out of the burn book of her fellow mean girls.
“I stayed on all of the call with my phone on mute, but I thought, ‘take notes’! Listen, because rarely would we hear someone talking about us and truly saying what they truly feel about us. After I listened to all of this – and I want every woman to hear this – I was bruised but I wasn’t broken. I listened to the entire call and I waited for everybody to click off and I called Latham and I said, ‘I don’t think this is going to be a great fit for me. But I hope that these women will go on and do great things.’ To this day they did not know that I was on this call. And it gets better. I have worked with Laura Hayes on Beauty Shop – after this call. I have worked with Adele Givens on “Herlarious” – after this call. I just saw Sommore at the neighborhood awards in Atlanta – after this call. Because I decided instead of being angry and vengeful I decided to take the truth of what they are saying – and they were right to have an opinion – and make myself an even better person. And I know you’re probably thinking, ‘Why are you saying this now?’ Because I’m right where I belong.”
Um, I hope part of “the truth of what they are saying” didn’t involve encouraging her to wear those god-awful wigs she has been rocking. Yeah, I know what you’re thinking. Why are you talking about that lady’s hair like that? Though I defended her when folks were calling her all sorts of ironic and counterproductive names in their defense of natural hair, I haven’t forgotten about her saying “nappy hair in particular is nasty.” And if something along the lines of, “Y’all know what would look cute on her? One of those same wigs Pam Oliver has” is what she heard on the other end of that conference call, she should have put down the Sharpie, interjected herself in the conversation and got them together rather quickly.
And that leads me to my real point: Why couldn’t Underwood have been bruised and not broken, but also taken that phone off mute and set those women straight right there on the spot? I mean, it would have been more honest and direct than to hold a grudge from well over 13 years ago. And yes, this was a grudge. She didn’t forget about it or let it go. She didn’t let bygones be bygones. She didn’t even take the high road. Taking the high road would have been confronting them and then giving them the opportunity to apologize and make things right. Taking the high road would have meant going on with her life, irrespective of how they felt about her.
Instead, she waited until the perfect moment presented itself to publicly air out a pretty private incident. That’s not inspirational–that’s just petty. It was a bit passive aggressive and a shade of opportunistic too. I mean, there’s no telling what kind of professional repercussions there will be for the three comediennes.
Seriously, not only did Underwood shame the hell out of these women in front of her worldwide viewing audience, but she called them out by name in front of an audience of mostly white women, who likely never heard of these comediennes beforehand. I bet many of them went home in their mom jeans, feeling sorry for the poor black lady in the funny wig and vowed to never support Sommore, Adele Givens and Laura Hayes ever, even though they were only privy to one side of the story. It’s actually a pretty ice cold thing to do to someone, even if it’s an enemy. In fact, I haven’t seen anything this cold since Daniel Plainview’s character in There Will Be Blood. Underwood literally sat on that stage, reached her straw all the way across the room and drank Sommore and ’em’s milkshakes. And in many respects, Underwood is no better than the people who supposedly wronged her. Hell, she might be even worse when you stop to really think about it.
Interestingly enough, radio talk show host and fellow comedian Rickey Smiley shared his own secrets about how Underwood was allegedly pretty underhanded at one point in her career as well. More specifically, the website Funky Dineva reports Smiley sharing on his radio show that “Sheryl would show up at shows and try to rearrange the show order, play promoters and other comics against one another and undercut other comedians.” It’s pretty insightful stuff, which you can listen to here. At the very least, Underwood’s “secret” sounds like it’s going to ruffle some feathers in the black comic world, outside of the main participants.
But I don’t want to minimize Underwood’s hurt here. And truthfully, if those women were as nasty as she alleges, I’m not mad at her at all. But I highly doubt Underwood will be getting an invite to substitute for Oprah Winfrey’s “Lifeclass,” particularly around the shows on forgiveness. But then again, Oprah seems a little shady sometimes too, so who knows?