Gentlemen Uncensored: Why Get Married? Part 2

102 comments
March 19, 2013 ‐ By Madame Noire

We heard your response to Episode 1 of Gentlemen Uncensored, so we’re giving you what you want — longer episodes. Part 1 of “Why Get Married?” barely scratched the surface of what these men had to say about marriage and their reservations. Watch the men get into more of a balanced discussion about holy matrimony and actually consider what (they think) women want in part 2. And of course, leave your reactions below.

GENTLEMEN UNCENSORED

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  • hollyw

    You know, most also went to their local wh*res AFTER the marriage, too, right? Not much better…

  • JJ

    Carlos is just ignorant. I’m not even going to address him any further. Ainsley made sense but I’m not sure I agree with him completely. Men are not superior to women, but we do have differences. The example he used was a bad one because men are stronger than women 90% of the time and this idea that we are physically equal is a dangerous one. I don’t mind men being the head of the household thing. Just as long as he knows what’s he’s doing and isn’t a tyrant. These men are ok, but next time could you guys interview some above average looking men I would like to see if their views on women differ.

  • http://www.facebook.com/chriskrolle Chris Kazi Rolle

    Ooh La La!

    I love your comments! Here are my responses:

    1. I see what you are saying. We are all friends and we encourage each other to go deep. In this clip it does look we were clowning though. Great insight. Thanks for that. Please know that we go very deep and we create safe space for men to share their emotions. I have been doing this work for a very looooong time.

    2.That was not the order in which I communicated the things that I thought. Not at all. It’s the way the producer edited the segment. My first thought was actually “Does she have the typeof temperament that can deal with me and all of my flaws.

    3. Great points!

    4. Well said!

    Thanks for joining the conversation. Let’s keep it going.

    +ckr

  • http://www.facebook.com/chriskrolle Chris Kazi Rolle

    There are plenty. Keep hope.

  • YoungCosby

    Yeah, it’s really sad. Men will do everything to commit to everything else of no value, but not the woman who adds tremendous value to their life. But, it’s a two way street. There are men who are messed up, just as there are women who are messed up. We all come with our level of baggage to the table, and absolutely nobody is free of it. I think the problem is a multifaceted one which needs conversations like this to exist, but get a bit more in depth. I understand that this is mostly for entertainment, but that’s where I have the problem.

    We as Black people come with issues from birth that are cultural, then as age progresses, a host of other issues start to attach themselves to us without us wanting them to. Our lives are filled with so many challenges and we do nothing to try to resolve them. We use convenient methods to self-medicate instead of getting to the root cause of our ills to help us heal internally and lead us into making better life decisions. So even though we have come so far as a people, we still have SO much work to do. We are still not in the position where we can be so solely focused on entertaining ourselves (with whatever method people may chose), what we completely negate the fact that we still have work to do.

    I’m not saying that we need to be Malcolm X 24/7, but I guess what bothers me as socially conscience brotha is that we spend way to much time shuckin’ and jivin’, entertaining, and playing around, and not enough learning, organizing and rehabilitating. As far as where the good brothas are at, they’re there. I just think a lot of them are left in the friend zone.

    • http://www.thecobraslair.com Cobra

      Which is an excellent point. What people are forgetting here is that marriage is also a sexual union. What’s sexually attractive to somebody doesn’t necessarily correlate to compatibility as a spouse.

      There are plenty of good brothers out there. They don’t all necessarily have what is considered “attractive” to what ever sisters they come across. There are plenty of good sisters out there and the same thing applies. Logic is thrown out the window, until way older in life, when looks fade, and companionship takes priority.

      –Cobra

      • YoungCosby

        You’re absolutely right about the sexual component. I think that our society has become even more engrossed with only that component as if it’s the only one of importance. Is it important? You’re dam right it is, lol, but once it’s done, what does that person offer you outside of that? You need a person who is going to provide that balance in your life.

  • Nina

    This is not feminine. This is human. Marriage is not just a tax break. It’s a structure found throughout the WORLD, with a variety of justifications (money, religion, etc), but sociologically it must reflect something very natural and innate about human existence? ______blackwhiteplanet.com_______ is the #1 black women white men dating site. White men dating black women, white men date black women, No one night stand. serious relationship

  • Nope

    Just to sum of what most of the comments from women on here are, and how most women think:
    A man is SUPPOSED to get married, and specifically to HER because that’s what SHE has decided FOR the present man and even the ones she has yet to meet. LMAO, yeah okay……..

    • C’mon son

      You must be reading from the back of a cereal box because that is definitely not the mindset of female commenters on this article. If a man wants to be single and jump around, fine; but don’t lead a woman on or do that to a woman who has made it clear she is looking for a committment or marriage. Despite your “marriage”, you seem to be the consumate woman basher implying how women are selfish and need to take accountability and better themselves while giving all men a pass because ‘that’s how we are’ without needing to take your own accountability. You know, in reality, not just in your head, for relationships to work, both parties, male and female, need to be mature enough to do that, not just the woman.

      • hollyw

        *WHEW!* Thank you, ma’am!! He was doin waaay too much on here, throwing shade left and right and not addressing any of his hypocrisies. *waves church fan*

  • Pseudonym

    How about recasting this panel with an older (50s) married man, a mature and level-headed married man in his 30s (The one in this series is actually good), and then men in their late 20s-30s who actually want to get married, but just haven’t found the right person (and perhaps someone engaged and happy and someone in a relationship and happy). There is no insight to relationships or marriage to be taken from listening to immature single dudes who don’t want to get married. They’d be good to consult on how to finesse casual situations and unattached sex, but they have nothing useful to add to a conversation about marriage. This is like me putting up a panel of straight-haired Japanese women and asking them to give their opinions on how they would style their hair if it were kinky. They have no idea and could only talk out of their backsides, which is exactly what a lot of guys on this panel are doing (and the alcohol consumption just makes it worse).

    • http://www.facebook.com/chriskrolle Chris Kazi Rolle

      Hey! Thanks for you comment. Good ideas. I disagree with some of what you said, but for the most part, we are on the same page.

      I am always open to new ideas and input from caring, engaged viewers like yourself. Keep it coming. I will be listening.

      If you haven’t already heard of me or the work that I have been doing with boys and young men across America for over 20 years, google my name.

    • hollyw

      I hate to say it, but you are dead on on the re-casting lol. I feel like for the topics arising, the panel should actually be flipped; being mostly married, or marriage-minded men, and one or two noncommittal men. It would be more insightful and useful advice for women.

      • http://www.thecobraslair.com Cobra

        What is a “marriage-minded” man who is still single? This either means he A) hasn’t found the “right” one(s) B) Has found the “right” one(s) but they didn’t want him.

        It’s a two-way street, you know.

        –Cobra

        • Harcourth_Vincent_Mudd

          That’s the first valid syllogism I think I’ve ever see you make. Congratulations!

  • Meyaka

    I’m baffled that we as women have been reduced to a few terms and assumptions, I can’t believe that we are now supposed to abide by certain rules and regulations in order to get a man to marry us,where do they do this at? Because my husband had to be a man that I would want to marry not the other way around. Women give most of themselves up to become the number two in your life and it’s still not enough? All a woman ask is for love and respect, the latter being optional nowadays. Gentlemen you are a disappointment.

    Ps:
    I like Tmore this fool said “nah son”
    Flatline!

    • http://www.facebook.com/chriskrolle Chris Kazi Rolle

      Hey Meyaka. Thank for you comment. Duly noted. We appreciate your contribution to forwarding the conversation. Keep it coming.

  • JJ

    We want to be vulnerably secure? What is that exactly? The issue we all seem to avoid is the hard work and commitment in building stuctures together. Everyone wants security from something and a “complete person” meaning we’re already holding back before we even begin and suddenly once we’re in the relationship we come out of hiding and reveal ourselves and give our all and expect the other party to be fully vested. It sounds Cinderella good but sometimes the people you feel aren’t worth your time or may not good enough for you could have the most to give. Sometimes when you work becoming better people together you pull a whole lot more from it than doing it alone to “prepare” for someone so you get the perfect person. Live people. Make mistakes. Expose yourself with only God’s security, not man’s, stop being so afraid to be hurt and love freely and genuinly and truly believe it wont come automatically or soon but real happiness and fulfillment will appear in the end.

  • On_Point

    good so far, but you need to work on their mic’s. find them hard to hear most of the times.

  • dee

    Im never getting married! lol!

  • Jay

    Proverbs 18:22 “He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the LORD.”

    That is all.

    Many of you have touched upon some very intellectual points. Marriage should not be looked upon as a chore, but as a gift from God. I feel that these men are a bit jaded about what their “ideal women” is supposed to look like (even after childbirth) and behave like. Marriage is about love, and yes, to some degree stability, but you MUST find that stability on your own before you can look for it in another person.

    The REAL issue is that people are in love with the idea of being in love but are not willing to put in the work to STAY in love despite any hardships. Many folks have this idea of what marriage should look like instead of searching deep within themselves to understand what marriage and love should FEEL like.

    How do they challenge you to be better? How can you challenge them to be better? The answers to those questions extend far beyond outer appearance and status.

    Adam and Eve, people, Adam and Eve.

    One can not survive without the other and when you can understand this, inadequate topics such as a women’s “snapback” after birth won’t even cross your mind because your are so overjoyed and grateful that a women would even sacrifice her womb (and appearances) to bring a new life in this world that can and will change you both for the better.

  • Nina

    This is not feminine. This is human. Marriage is not just a tax break. It’s a structure found throughout the WORLD, with a variety of justifications (money, religion, etc), but sociologically it must reflect something very natural and innate about human existence? Interracial women dating?? Black women looking for white men??? Black women loving white
    men???_______blackwhiteplanet.c0m_______is the #1 black women white men dating site. No one night stand. serious relationship

  • Crossroads

    Ephesians 5:25-26…………..

    25 For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her 26 to make her holy and clean, washed by the cleansing of God’s word.

  • Cali

    PLEASE have your editor ride the sound levels – a few of the guys’ mics don’t seem to be working & they’re hard to hear. Interesting series, will keep watching!

  • Theresa…..again

    My daughter told me I hold men to a very high standard, I told her good my father set the bar high and he was a plain man, an honest man, a good man not a perfect man but he was a man therefore I know what a man looks like, sound like and how a man behaves and I raised my son her brother to be in my dad’s image because their dad couldn’t meet those heights so I did it alone and did it well. When a black man express disrespect for black women you make yourself look foolish because you are essentially telling the entire world you don’t value your mother, sister, daughter, or yourself. I continue to hold black men to a high standard because they are suppose to be the head the family and they are failing horribly, and it saddens me. I hold black men to a high standard because I value my father, son, brother and myself, I hold myself, mother, daughter, and all my sisters to a high standard. We are lost, our ancestors were kings and queens but yet we behave so badly in public…..in public……..the entire world watches as we disrespect our own but yet continue to beg others to respect us…..how…….we don’t respect ourselves…..there are NO gentlemen on that panel…..gentlemen DO NOT speak so horribly about a woman! There isn’t another race of men that disrespects their women like black men, everyone hates us we’re not attractive, smart, or worthy to be a wife and the same black men who should defend us second the emotion….I’m DONE!

    • Crossroads

      Ephesians 5:25-26……..

      25 For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her 26 to make her holy and clean, washed by the cleansing of God’s word.

    • hollyw

      Agreed! Many of these men obviously had the poor excuse for a father, or no father, and this is what you get. Someone mentioned rap having something to do with giving these men from broken homes a platform to spread their ignorance as “the new norm”, and I’m inclined to agree. Even my younger female cousins, from two-parent homes, seem to want men like Lil Wayne, Drake, yada, and therefore aspire to be like the women they describe. At least half of them will undoubtedly find out the hard way that these are NOT men you want in your life, but hopefully not before it’s too late. Please believe,I will not be buying their music for my child (or myself).

      • Nope

        “Many of these men obviously had the poor excuse for a father, or no father”

        Which means they were probably raised by a woman…………………………

        • hollyw

          Precisely. Because if two people create a child, who’s going to be the least likely to abandon it..? The woman :-)

          • Nope

            My point is, if many are raised by women which equates to a lot of influence, so why aren’t these women raising “better” men? Oh wait I know, because they would mean a woman embracing accountability.

            It’s interesting that a lot of single women want to claim they’re “playing both roles”, but point the finger when it’s convenient to do so. Either you own the team, or you don’t.

            • hollyw

              Sir, are you serious?? You mention accountability of a woman in the obvious instance that was created only because the man abandoned the child..? How can you not see the hypocrisy in your reasoning?? You’re clearly just throwing shade anywhere you can find it b/c of the overall criticisms of this episode, your prev. posts, and prob ya life.

              The ONLY accountability a woman could possibly take in those instances are in being too naive or even irresponsible for not seeing the lack of accountability the man who fathers her child has. It is not also her fault that he’s not man enough to raise his offspring! Wth does “own the team” even mean, obviously every single mother has to take ultimate responsibility for the child’s raising, there’s no one else there!! That’s is NOT the same as it’s her FAULT. WOW. Look up the difference. In any case, I’mma stop giving air to ignorance, good day, sir.

  • BYG

    Typical educated black men who think they are the “cream of the crop ” to black women…..Its clear probably none of them actually wants to get married….nothing else to say….

    • Nope

      “Its clear probably none of them actually wants to get married”

      Who says they have to? They usually eventually marry someone, they question is why wasn’t to the one’s complaining about not being chosen.

      • Nope

        And this is the question that never, ever gets answered. They wind up marrying someone, but why aren’t they marrying YOU?

  • Moe

    None of these men are remotely attractive and they can’t be that successful if they are doing this show. My point is these men seem to have high and superficial standards which is interesting since they don’t seem to be bringing much to the table. Dear MN if you are going to hire men to be so harsh on women, at least make them someone women would commit murder to be with.

    • DLBOYD

      AMEN!

    • http://www.facebook.com/chriskrolle Chris Kazi Rolle

      We love you any way. Thanks for your comment.

    • hollyw

      Lmbo not ‘commit murder’ though! I wouldn’t go so far as to call any of them ugly, I think most of them are pretty decent-looking…but I can see how feeling criticized can make one more critical towards this group. Hopefully, we can all experience more positive dialogue between us in future episodes…

    • KamJos

      First, I don’t think we should be commenting on the attractiveness of the men, that’s not the point. Beauty is subjective and personally I see nothing wrong with the way the look. Even if they were all supermodels their views and standards would still be unappealing to me.

  • http://www.yourtango.com/users/cheekee-baby cheekee baby

    I’m more than good if these men see no benefit to marriage, more power to them. If they’re cool stringing dumb azz women along for years I’m all for it. What I cannot co-sign on is these idiots making babies with women they KNOW they do not want to commit to. I’m calling foul on that ish all day long! We want to confine and eventually eradicate the dumbazz gene these men possess and to do that we need them not to breed . .. .ever!

  • Theresa

    I remember watching an old episode of Grey’s Anatomy when the great Dr. Burke told his mother that he was aware Christina wasn’t perfect but she needs him and he can make her happy and he’s good for her what she lacks he’ll help her rise, that episode made me cry…..thinking about it I want to cry now….when did our men stop wanting to care for us and their children, the race of good black men looks down on black women all black women….what happened. My father took care of my mother and me and my siblings…..7 kids and he told her she didn’t have to work because she wanted too because we struggled, but he said it was his job to care for his little one that’s what he called my mom. I have been celibate for 8yrs. messing around doesn’t appeal to me anymore, I desire a husband, a lover, a partner someone I can trust with my heart and my body, someone to grow old with that cherish me as much as I cherish them. I am a grown up these men sound like children, I am raising a son on my own a college man that has been with the same girl for four years he is very handsome, smart, caring……I am over joyed I raised a good black man that respect himself and his little one……the way he takes care of her makes the entire family say awwwwww……….I did something right!

    • Janay

      Rap happened. Rap music has turned women from valuable possesions more precious than rubiew (as the bible states) to nothing more than a walking object with a hole for them to stick it in for their pleasure. I tell you the truth though I think black men have a huge wave of karma headed their way. They have sowed a lot of evil death destruction degradation on the earth lately.

      • Theresa

        My daughter just said the same thing a minute ago lol, well I know my son isn’t going to be part of the wrath because I raised a gentleman, his girl is a woman of color and curvy, she’s a college student as well they don’t drink or smoke in their spare time they go to the movies and bowl.

      • Meyaka

        And the women in pop music.

      • Nonya

        Well, some of the women in those Rap/Hip Hop videos wearing next to nothing, grinding and twerkin and doin all that other stuff are also portraying us as “walking objects with holes for their pleasure” and are not doing any favors to the black woman. These women are not showing young black girls how to value themselves and show class. They are doing just as much degrading to us as the black men are.

  • YoungCosby

    These men, and most men come with a problem that cause most relationships to break down, and the reason is they aren’t good listeners. If a woman wants to be with you (the good ones that which, which there are WAY more good women then there are good men), she will let you know usually before you as a man lets her know. This comes from the selfish nature of most men coupled with not being able to communicate how they feel. The reason why they want to be with you is because they don’t want to be just a stat on your score sheet. She wants to be number one, and with being number one comes several benefits (if the man is doing his job right.) What most men don’t take into account is that the woman is sacrificing much more being with a man than a man being with a woman. Most women can get with any man they want because they’re women. They possess that power. Men on the other hand, they don’t have it like that (of course there being exceptions to that rule.) But not just being able to have any man they want, they sacrifice their bodies for the sake of child bearing, they take a man’s last name, they usually follow the man’s lead when it comes to life decisions. What does the man give up? The ability to have his privacy and sleep with as man women as he possibly can. What this video also demonstrates is that there is a negative connotation associated with being married. It comes from so many influences within out society, coupled with what issues affect us as Black people.

    • http://www.facebook.com/chriskrolle Chris Kazi Rolle

      Young Cosby. Thanks for joining the conversation. Keep it coming.

      • YoungCosby

        I plan on it sir! I love conversations like this because I not only like discussing the issues that plague our community, I like getting to the root causes so we can find the solutions and smart ways of implementation.

        • http://www.facebook.com/chriskrolle Chris Kazi Rolle

          That great! Me too! Please email me about your work. I would love to check out what you are doing.

          If you google my name you can check out some of the various solutions I’ve implemented over the 20 years of doing work to resolve issues that plague our community.

          • YoungCosby

            Sounds good. I will definitely hit you up.

    • FAMURattler85

      I love this. VERY well said sir.

  • Pingback: Men Have The Marriage Talk Amongst Each Other | PHENO

  • Bored!!

    The arrogance this is painful to watch!

  • TeahMonae

    When a man finds the one that he can’t live without, he won’t. When I met my husband, he told me he was never getting married. I just think that was because he hadn’t met the woman that was best suited for him yet. Most men don’t really know what they want until they find it. We all know some guy who married someone totally not his usual type or dated someone for years only to marry the next girl within a couple of months. The bottom line is, when he mets the one he wants to marry, he’ll get married. Until then, he’ll make every excuse not to just like these men are doing.

    • hollyw

      …right, the problem most women have is not being able to distinguish, mostly b/c Black men don’t tell them until it’s too late, the difference between the man who hasn’t realized you’re the one for him vs. you are not.

      You’re story sounds pretty similar to that by the guy who left the girl (which, to be honest, he is probably lying and she left him) b/c she seemed interested in marriage. If I met a guy who said he wasn’t interested in marriage, I’d politely thank him for his honesty and move on. As that man’s girl prob did. No offense, but I feel your situation is not the norm, and waiting around for a man to realize your worth where he then marries the next after dating two months, as you described, is more likely of happening when you don’t take a man’s word at face value, as you advise against. IMO

      • Pivyque

        I agree that it is not the norm, but she may not have been looking for marriage. My husband told me that he was never getting married when we met. It didn’t matter to me because I wasn’t looking to marry. I was just going out with him because I enjoyed his company. I think that if you are dating with a purpose (marriage) then yes, you should walk away from a man that says he will never marry (or just be his friend) because he just may hold true to that statement. On the flip side, if marriage isn’t what you are looking for at the time, why not enjoy his company until you feel the need to begin dating with a purpose

        • http://www.facebook.com/chriskrolle Chris Kazi Rolle

          Well said!

        • hollyw

          That is a good perspective I didn’t think about, this is true. I just recently started ‘dating with a purpose’, as you say, so not directly for marriage, but long-term. Before then, while men w/ a more serious mindset didn’t necessarily scare me off (like ^this guy^ was), I was def more wary of them. Thanks!

        • TeahMonae

          Thank you for adding this. I couldn’t have expounded upon my original comment better!

      • TeahMonae

        I understand your point, no offense taken. When I met my husband we were friends that hung in the same social circle and I wasnt interested in him romantically at all. We were friends for years before we started dating but I see your point. If I had met him under different circumstances, it probably would have been a different outcome.

        • hollyw

          That makes sense, and thank you for sharing :)

    • http://www.facebook.com/chriskrolle Chris Kazi Rolle

      Thanks! Well said.

  • trini

    sorry to be basic…….”clasificate”??? hahahahahahahah babes you stupid is showing..teehee…

  • trini

    wait wait wait….sweetie pie!…..I am wrong to require marriage???!?? I could love you to ‘daeth’..but i love me more, that is something that I REQUIRE and ABSOLUTELY &*&^%ING Y.E.S I WOULD LEAVE YOU IF YOU DIDN’T WANT TO GET MARRIED….stueps!

    • http://www.facebook.com/chriskrolle Chris Kazi Rolle

      We love the comments. All comments. Let keep it respectful though. Cool?

  • Reign86

    Sigh…this leaves so much be be desired.

    • hollyw

      I know, where is the ONE single man who is a great catch AND emotionally available AND wants a wifey + is ready to step up to the plate??? I mean, this is just making THEM look bed…

      • http://www.facebook.com/chriskrolle Chris Kazi Rolle

        Aww that is to bad you feel that way. I have a lot of them for you. I got you next time. What age range?

        • hollyw

          Lmbo you serious?? 28-35!

  • vandcamp

    in other words……men are good with just having fun…..so why get married?

    • hollyw

      Yeah…this series hasn’t done well to depict Black men in a positive light. Even the men of MN have commented on the series’ post not being of most Bl. men in NYC.

    • http://www.facebook.com/chriskrolle Chris Kazi Rolle

      No. I think it is much broader than that. All human have complexities and contradictions. Many of us are multifaceted. You have 6 different men in this particular conversation. All with different views and perspectives. It take more than a video clip to make an accurate make a summation of what ‘all’ men want and desire in the area of marriage.

  • Facts or Opinion?

    Wow is right. There is so much to touch on. I can’t seem to understand why marriage is looked at so negatively when each relationship between two people has it’s own story. The youngin’ said “why get married when it’s doomed to fail?”. With that negative outlook before you even get started means you have failed already without trying. There are so many benefits to marriage. Sure marriage is an open outward expression to others of your union with your mate but most importantly to God who really matters more than anyone. Number one benefit is your soul saving process. It’s the right thing to do if anyone is at all interested in being right. It makes the relationship honest, and the bed undefiled. You don’t have to grow old by yourself. You get to share life experiences both the up and down side with someone who loves you. Children get to be raised in a two parent home with the very people who help bring them into existence. Two heads are better than one….you don’t have to do it (anything) all by yourself. Forbid you should get sick but if you do, you have someone who will genuinely care for you. We are created as sexual beings to procreate so sex is going to happen. The good thing about marriage is you can have sex without the worries of communicable diseases if you respect and honor your marriage. I know what your thinking, these days marriage doesn’t guarantee fidelity. It doesn’t but that has to do with a personal way of thinking and regard for ones self. All the more reason in the importance in choosing a mate. Not for what they have but who they are character wise. Does attraction matter? Sure, it’s important for everyone. There has to be a level of physical attraction for us all and is considered already for a conversation to take place about where the relationship is going. You get to look at yourself through your mates eyes. They challenge you to be a better person with sharing how you just made them feel by doing or saying a certain thing. Doing so out of love, not control and trying to change you. I hope someone reading gets the point. We got it all backwards. Instead of looking within we look outwards for the potential mate to help us make the right choice. I’m getting a headache just thinking of what to write. Talk about getting lost in translation.
    Are you going to hit some bumps and have to jump over some hurdles on the marriage road? Sure you will but that doesn’t mean it’s not worth the try because of the possibilities. The institution of marriage was divinely designed for a purpose. And because we all have gotten away from what the true meaning and purpose is, families today are an absolute mess. It’s more than just sex, looks, financial stability, what you got, and status. It’s about working on you. Anything good that comes from working on you are added benefits. I will be the first to admit that I am a contributing factor in what is going wrong with family and the structure of it because of my personal choices. I’m not going to blame my parents and what they didn’t teach me because they were examples wether positive or negative. I know what I didn’t like so it is my duty to do better. Have I made some of the same mistakes….sure. But I won’t wallow in it and give up. I have to do better before I leave this earth. I’m not perfect and don’t expect for my male counter part to be. But I do expect to see others take a look at self, admit their contribution to the problem within self or vocally if at all comfortable with sharing their story with others and take responsibility. Marriage can be a beautiful experience if you would let it.

    • SP08

      EXCELLENT commentary. It is not just Black men but MANY men in this culture who do not see the benefit of finding and marrying VIRTUOUS woman. I think we have forgotten her value…

    • Nonya

      GREAT COMMENT! My feelings exactly; couldn’t have said it better.

  • YES gAWD

    LOL at the guy leaving the woman because she would leave if he didnt want to marry him. But Im QUITE CERTAIN…if she wasnt giving up the drawers he would be out the door as well. so why is one persons level of loyalty frowned upon while Im sure he would feel justified in leaving if she wasnt giving it up.

    • Facts or Opinion?

      Right though. And he’s concerned with her wanting the marriage or him. What that brotha wants is benefits of marriage without the responsibility of it. How can you fix your mouth to say that when you are stealing a woman’s youth. Then if you decide your ready to be out then your out? When she starts slashing tires and burning clothes she’s crazy right?

    • hollyw

      Right. His admission was even more bizarre than The Divorce’s that he’d broken up w/ a chick for having VHSs on display on Part 1… o.O These clowns…they really don’t know…

      • Jenna

        I’m not mad at these men for speaking because I would rather hear black men speak on an unscripted show than do research and appear to be well informed men. I want to hear their truth whether I agree with it or not. They did not say anything that I wasn’t expecting anyway. These men represent the average black man. Different looks same ol’ ignorant ideologies. But I haven’t lost any hope yet. lol.

    • SP08

      I was too through with this guy. You mean to tell me you can “have fun” and waste the time of a woman whose biological clock is ticking and not take responsibility for her? This is why our society is jacked up. Men need to step up in their role and be leaders by example already… truth is they already are…. SMH.

  • Nope

    If a person isn’t interested in marriage with you (or marriage in general), why do you care about that person’s opinion?

    Also, yes it is generally true that most women that a man romantically encounters is going to try to convince him of her awesomeness and why he needs to marry her specifically and how empty his life was before he had the extreme pleasure of knowing her (which is the same story she told the last guy, and if another one comes after you). So any man anti-marriage/relationship/or “relationship” (each of which are his prerogative are automatically looked at as the bad guy.

    • SP08

      I personally care because 7 times out of 10 a man who isn’t interested in marriage is leading a woman on as if he is. Unfortunately I wish more women would listen to what a man SAYS as well as what he DOES. Many times the actions of a man tell a woman he digs her and wants to be with her, but his words are all “I wanna have fun” “I don’t want marriage” so he can have an excuse when his deeds don’t match his words. This confuses and ruins good women. MEN KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING when they play these games.

      • Nope

        To be fair, most relationships and “relationships” mostly begin and sometimes remain in a woman’s head.

    • SP08

      It’s like taking an expensive gift from someone who you KNOW digs you yet you don’t feel the same way. Men steal from women sexually, emotionally etc all the time and society has taught them to play this “game” with women. No more excuses. If you don’t want marriage you shouldn’t be dating women leading them on as if you do period. That is JMHO MOST women want marriage. She ain’t dating just for fun.

      • Nope

        “Men steal from women sexually, emotionally etc ”

        lol, so women don’t get what they ultimately seek in their interactions with men: ATTENTION….? Lets stop pretending that women wind up completely empty handed when dealing with men. A man MIGHT get sex, but the women usually always gets attention.

        • hollyw

          Sir, you are mistaken. That’s not what women seek; that is, in fact, what MEN seek.This is why many men feel more comfortable dating multiple women at once as opposed to the one.

          Women ultimately seek security. Emotional security, financial security, to feel secure in the relationship. Etc.

      • Nope

        Most men don’t date to get married. Until women realize this they will remain disappointed and brokenhearted with their romantic situations.

        • Pseudonym

          You mean most BLACK men. My non-black male friends, co-workers, and classmates are dating for marriage, getting engaged, and getting married. It’s the black guys that are still playing around trying to date frivolously like they’re still 16 years old. And seems like the more educated black men become, the worse they get in that department. It’s sad, really.

          • Nope

            Who says a man has to marry you, or anyone at all? Just because the woman said so/that’s the movie playing out in her head? LMAO.

    • hollyw

      I don’t care…until they try to incorporate themselves into my personal life in some way. They only become the bad guy when they don’t know what they want, so just assign themselves to imitate what I’VE just said I want so they can stay in the picture, i.e. waste my time, OR ‘change their minds’, after they’ve gotten to know someone, but again, will then lead them on until the next unlucky woman crosses his path. MN posted a piece by Dr. J describing men doing this as a habit, I believe, a day ago.

      And Fyi, you used the same exact stereotype mentioned in the video, that most women want marriage at any given time from every man; this is untrue on both fronts.

      • C’mon son

        That article sure was posted yesterday where J stated that men will go out of their way to BS a woman and not fully tell his intentions because she will, wait for it…choose to completely move on from the situation. I guess we’ll conveniently skip over that, though. SMH. So she isn’t trying to convince him why he needs to marry her specifically because he’s already saying he wants that kind of life so she won’t go looking for a man whom he knows would be better for her. Pathetic.

        • hollyw

          Right! It’s MEN who are the convincers lol. And liars. I don’t have to convince nobody of nothing. I just come as I am, and have to check these fools who keep trying to waste my time…of course, if they had any integrity, they wouldn’t waste it in the first place…

  • http://twitter.com/locsnlyrics ED.

    There’s a lack of reflection. Are these men given questions in advance? I appreciate the improvisational feeling, but the discussions would be enriched with preparation.

    I’m interested in a framework for these discussions. All of the men seem to be speaking from conventional platforms that see women as needy, marriage hungry, commitment seeking, etc. I encourage you all to recognize how incredibly multidimensional women are. A woman’s needs are. Then further recognize that those needs transcend gender. They speak to the human experience. They pertain to men as well, even if gender constructions make it difficult for men to acknowledge.

    Some of those needs were brought up jokingly here, and I wish they had been treated as profound. The realization of your own finiteness. Desiring a partner who is willing to watch you age. And love you through it. Having a partner to support you through life tasks that take more than one person to execute successfully. Raising a family, biologically requires commitment. Wanting to experience vulnerability with another human, but within in a stable context. This is not feminine. This is human. Marriage is not just a tax break. It’s a structure found throughout the WORLD, with a variety of justifications (money, religion, etc), but sociologically it must reflect something very natural and innate about human existence?

    Fewer ageist comments would be refreshing. It seems Harold is qualifying his statements constantly, while the older men around him are expressing similar simplistic ideas. There is privilege in age and there is privilege in youth, and both groups have something valuable to share with the other. As a young woman (much younger than Harold, no doubt), I would actually appreciate that perspective being brought in more. Can we acknowledge that young people are wondering about all this, too? Instead of collapsing us all into stereotypical they’re-young-they-don’t-know.

    I’m asking for more complexity. More depth of thought. Maybe you all read an article before you shoot, then discuss that article and post that alongside the video. Then we can read that and respond with you. Add an interactive component while also building that deeper framework for viewers. No worries, we can handle it.

    • JPG

      Very well written. Thank you.

    • Yay!

      Ceo’s cleavage-shirt had the most depth on this panel…Lets see more…

    • WOW!!

      I deeply appreciate your reply its honest and rooted in reality, instead of pointing a finger at women I believe it would be more beneficial to those men to examine themselves, not women as they are not one so how can they assume to believe they have all the answers. The only response these men have is I want this I want that because they assume they are professional educated men that’s all they believe is required……..I beg to differ!

    • http://www.facebook.com/chriskrolle Chris Kazi Rolle

      Thank for you comment. We appreciate your perspective. Keep it coming.

    • http://twitter.com/DJCEO Style & Performance

      Normally, when I’m apart of this types of discussions and they are place on the web for others to view and then come to their own conclusions of what they just took in I never respond, but I will for this comment simply because you’re response unlike many women who have had something to say on previous posts come from a very negative, naive, ignorant and angry place it would be to tiresome to break certain things down for them. You on the other hand my dear have commented clearly your thoughts about it and I for one Appreciate it. I’ll say this to response to some of your questions and points.

      I don’t believe madam noir wanted us to come in with rehearsed answers. They wanted to give the viewer the feel of as if you walked in by accident to a conversation amongst us men this is what you would hear. I feel if we had time think about these questions days or even hours in advance it wouldn’t have had the same passion and excitement in it. This is 99.9% about what we think and .1% about making women say “did that brother just say that” in order to get conversations going.

      I truly don’t believe all the men on this panel portray women as needy. I know I didn’t, in fact in a few of my comments i made mention of how both men and women tend to stick with a good person as opposed to a the person that is good to them.

      T-more made a great comment as men we don’t finish the sentence, and I will admit to not finishing my sentence on my ideas on marriage. I 100% believe that marriage is way deeper than tax breaks, as I said it’s a public declaration of your love, to God, your family and friends. But I ask you this, if two people are deeply and love and their friends & family knew it but you could no longer get tax breaks for being married, what would be the difference in being married or a committed relationship? It may sound cold but part the marriage is a business decision. Just like any business decision, part of it is because you really like the person, no one wants to work with anyone they don’t like or can’t get along with & the other part is what is the ROI. The ROI could be, he/she would make a great parent or he/she holds me down during rough times. I for one believe in everything that marriage stands for. EVERYTHING!

      Finally this would be to all the women viewing this. It is important to remember, not one question was asked about what you want or what you like, so when you respond about us looking in the mirror, or checking our stock in all this, stop and think for a second. This ain’t about you. It’s about us what we want and what we look for. If the question was asked, what is our role in marriage or making a woman happy then I’m sure we would have answered with content of self reflection.

      • hollyw

        Welcome DJ CEO. First and foremost, thanks for joining the discussion. While @facebook-100002631366690:disqus had been doing great, I think he’s done more than his fair share of ‘taming the masses’ lol…

        One thing I’d say is that, in starting out, it might be better to leave out any blatantly critical comments. i.e. describing posters as uniformly coming frm a “negative, naive, ignorant and angry place”, esp. in a Black woman’s forum, and esp. when the bulk of backlash for the series so far was for the critical/unrealistic depictions of women from the series…ijs :)

        I understand that, in the end, you guys were only asked a specific question surrounding your wants and needs, and as Chris has mentioned, you guys seem to also have no control over the editing, so I’m keeping that in mind and holding the rest of my critical thinking until a more well-rounded presentation, w/ all parties (included the married men) have been heard. However, it is important for you to understand that, one, to an extent, even with the direction of the questions being accounted for, that the responses they provoked were from women w/ an understanding of the situation. Also, there’s no such thing as “this ain’t about you”, considering your answers were about us, and posted on a forum for us. Second, keep in mind your audience. The men heard the most were the ones that most of the women in this forum honestly aren’t as interested in hearing from, i.e. single/divorced men who don’t seem ready for a committed relationship and/or marriage. So in retrospect, I’d almost expect your answers to be somewhat negative/unrealistic, and consequently received negatively in this forum. So perhaps some better editing from MN in the future will present a more positive and desired viewing for us all :)

        Thanks again for your feedback and good luck w/ the series.

  • hollyw

    WOOOW. So much, wouldn’t even no where to begin…good grief!