“Why Ya’ll Always Look So Mean?” How Years Of Being Ogled At And Macked On By Aggressive Men Can Turn A Woman Off–Even To A Good Man

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January 23, 2013 ‐ By
Source: Shutterstock

Source: Shutterstock

While out for drinks this past weekend with my boyfriend and his friends, we were all sitting together in a circle, talking about a little bit of everything, including the gun control debate, dating, interracial dating, and the habits of women that men don’t like. To be specific, the alleged habits of black women that some black men aren’t too fond of. While talking about this, a friend brought up the fact that often when he rides public transportation or walks the street and sees a beautiful black woman, he’ll send a glance her way and even a smile. However, he lamented over the fact that the reaction he receives is anything but flattered or remotely positive.

“If I show interest in a sista and look her way, she always looks back all angry or like she has an attitude. Why ya’ll always look so mean?? I never get that type of reaction from other women! But don’t get me wrong, I prefer a sista over everybody else.”

The other black men out with us at the time seemed to agree, with one declaring that, “Some of ya’ll need to accept the fact that you’re angry. Everywhere I’ve been I’ve encountered it. Not all of you, but a lot of you just seem to have a chip on your shoulder for no reason.”

No reason?

That part of the conversation I had to jump in on, and if you were wondering, NO, I wasn’t angry or defensive in my response. While I can’t answer to why some of us seem to carry a lot of anger with us (Let’s not front. I’ve seen enough unnecessary confrontations on public transportation, while working in customer service and from my own friends and family to know some of us are indeed “angry”), when it comes to the less than stellar response some men receive from us in their attempts to “holla,” the looks they get or the feelings we have at that moment definitely have a back-story.

I’ve had a decently attractive man or two try and stare me down on public transportation, and I guess they thought I was supposed to get all geeked up, run over, introduce myself and that a connection was going to blossom. Uh, no. While I won’t be ugly with my response or reactions, sometimes I might even smirk back if we met eyes on accident, I often look away quickly, and if they are indeed still looking at me minutes later, maybe then they’ll receive the stink eye. I’m not a fan of mack daddy pick up lines when I’m out, I don’t take too kindly to strange men hovering over me to get my number at the laundromat while I try to discreetly separate my colored panties from my clothes that need to air dry. I’m not overjoyed by someone gawking at me in a crowded bar and then not having anything nice, funny or even educated to say when they finally step up and approach me. For myself, why I might “look mean” when a man tries to get my attention with creepy stares and lines is because I’ve spent a majority of my young life hearing that mess from strange men on the regular, especially on the streets when I wasn’t planning on or trying to hear it at all.

While I can’t testify to what young white women, Asian women, Indian women and more go through, when many young black women reach puberty, they become almost like prey. Once those boobs come in, that butt perks up and that period make its arrival, the innocent young girl that many men might see before becomes the young lady they’d like to do a little somethin’ somethin’ with. Let the summer come and you decide to wear some shorts, something that shows off your legs and keeps you from feeling as though you’re going to fry in the sun, and men standing on the street, driving around your neighborhood or moving about in general, black men that is, will have a thousand and one things to say. At first, you might be bothered, some might even be flattered because they’re new to it all, but as you get older and continuously deal with this mess, even at the crack of dawn when you’re on your way to work minding your business (why are ya’ll already out at 7 a.m.!?), you try and find ways to ignore it. Whether that means keeping headphones in all the time, saying “NO thank you” the minute a man’s mouth opens or walking on the opposite side of the street, trying to avoid aggressive men who clearly don’t want to get to know you for the right reasons becomes a second full-time job.

At the age of 12, dressed like a tacky pre-teen and not even showing off what I was working with, I went with my family to Nigeria for the first time and truly experienced this type of discomfort for the first time. Walking around with my sisters or even my mother, men who looked like they could be friends of my father pursed and smacked their lips at me, grabbed my arm at the market and tried to flirt with me, to my sheer horror. It took my dad, mother or brother to step in and say, ‘EXCUSE ME, She’s only 12 for God’s sake” for them to back off. And even as a grown woman now, living in NYC, it can be just as bad. The one time I walked to the train to go on a date with my boyfriend WITHOUT my headphones on, a young man told me I looked beautiful, and when I said “Thank you,” his friend added in, yelling down the street “And you’ve got some nice ti**ies too.”

Great.

So you’ll have to excuse me if I don’t feel any sympathy for a man who claims to be pissed that black women rebuff his indirect advances. Sorry, but it’s hard to tell who is serious and who is just looking for a good time when a majority of the time we’re made into sexual objects by a stranger. Many young black men (and even the older ones) can be very aggressive, and while a white woman, or Asian woman or Indian woman might fall for the stop, smile and stare (probably because they haven’t grown up with so many brothas), for a black woman, you’re really going to need to do a LOT better than that. Be straightforward. Be humorous. Hell, a helpful man who helps me with my heavy groceries down the street is even nice. But all in all, come correct. Because we’ve seen and heard all of it before, probably since we were in middle school, and at this point, the “HEY GIRL!” smacked lips, ogling and stares are not attractive as much as they’re just annoying.

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  • Jass

    Baby….no one wants you….and I mean that. While you’re thinking you’re such a catch. I rejoice when I see other races together now that so many black women are enjoying interracial LOVE themselves.

  • Jass

    I was trying to put words to this phenomenon. This type of man acts as if women OWE them attention. I tend to disagree. It’s happened all my life and has reaallly put me off black men. If I’m going in to pay for gas (minding my f**ing business), you should mind yours just like every other intelligent man on the planet. I dont HAVE to give you my attention and you dont have the right to get mad about it. I only get this kind of UNWANTED attention from black men. Any other race of male is respectful, may give a polite compliment, makes intelligent small talk and then will go about their day, and generally just minds their own business. I don’t get the feeling that they’ll try to follow me home. They don’t say inappropriate things or ask for my number. They seem to realize that we are STRANGERS to each other and don’t OWE one another anything. And for any man who is bothered by a woman who doesn’t appreciate a male being overly familiar; or being aggressively approached by various strange men, you must be an offender and need to find a much more intelligent way to get what you really want from women. TAKE A HINT if so many women SHOW you that you’re being offensive. It doesnt mean that i’m angry just because I hate getting “hollared” at. It’s harassment. It’s like trying to rape a woman and then getting mad because she didn’t enjoy it.

  • Pingback: Class Discussion 2/5/13 | Sociology of the Body()

  • kaykay

    Im sooo guilty of the mean mug….its gotten to the point where i look at myself constantly in the mirror to see if i really look that angry…but i cant walk around with the kool-aid smile all the time…u can like or leave i guess…

  • satch

    move to Seattle or Minneapolis and you ladies will not have to worry about this issue.the bros will ignore you because it’s too many white girls ready to lay down and get down,you can live in peace.but do not worry a time will come when nobody will checking for you unless he is a bum who needs a place to stay.

  • Drew Smith

    At some point in time, education is going to have to be introduced into this equation.

  • Drew Smith

    Here’s a crazy idea: If you don’t like the way the people within your environment act, then change your environment. Try the suburbs on for size. It’s an excellent living situation.

    • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

      I live in the suburbs, work, and travel mostly within the suburbs and the behavior is still there. Why? Because the common denominator is Black men.

      • Drew Smith

        I’ve been to your Baltimore suburbs, and ummm… you should pick another city. Good luck.

        • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

          Huh? The city and the suburbs are two different places. Please, do tell me where you have been in Baltimore, because every suburb is not the same.

          • Drew Smith

            Indeed, they are, but you certainly won’t purport that Baltimore County is equivalent to a Howard or Montgomery County further south. You just can’t. I lived in Laurel for many years, so I know both DC and Baltimore very well. I’ve been through almost every nook and cranny in each city, starting with hitting The Paradox when I was in high school, Druid Hill Park, Patapsco (I think you get the point), and cay say with zero compunction that the ilk of black men in Baltimore and its surrounding counties is one of the lowest forms of black men in this country (the stats don’t lie either). The Wire, while a mere series, is not too far from the reality of the fools in your area. Do you care to refute? Like I communicated above: you should pick another city. Good luck.

            • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

              What do you mean by ‘your area’? The Wire was based on life in Baltimore City. I am not a resident of Baltimore City. As I said, I live in the suburbs. Druid Hill Park is in the city, not the suburbs. The Paradox is a club in Baltimore City. I am not sure about Patapsco, but that is a small area near Baltimore City or maybe part of Baltimore City. You didn’t list any SUBURBS in Baltimore County. So, I don’t know what you mean by ‘pick another city’, because I don’t even live in the city.

          • Drew Smith

            I swore I responded to this. Weird. Anyway, as far as the city goes, I’ve spent many a Saturday night in my heyday at the Paradox (not too far from Camden Yards), kicked it at Patapsco, ran indoor track at the Baltimore Armory, chilled at Druid Hill Park, tossed too many beers back in Canton, partied it up at Bohagar’s (sp), and a lot more. I think you get the point. With respect to the suburbs, I’ve dated chicks in Dundalk, Towson (great school, by the way), Woodlawn and more. I’m from the area. What more criteria do you require for me to be able to weigh in?

        • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

          Huh? The city and the suburbs are two different places. Please, do tell me where you have been in Baltimore, because every suburb is not the same.

      • Drew Smith

        Found one. Ummm… if YOU are all of these places where the behavior is, then aren’t YOU also a common denominator, too??? That’s weird.

    • Really?

      I fail to see why the environment determines the level of respect a woman deserves. Even if Ravens does live in the suburbs, there are plenty of women that don’t. So women in the “hood” just need to get over it and get used to being treated like a piece of meat because that’s where they happen to live?
      Victim-blaming at its finest.

      • Drew Smith

        Answer: If you don’t like the way the people within your environment act, then change your environment. Notice how my message doesn’t even begin to argue about levels of respect, women, “hood,” or victim. Reaching at its finest.

        • Really?

          In your subsequent posts you are comparing the suburbs and the city (ie. “hood”) of Baltimore and saying that women should just pick up and move to the suburbs to get away from the “lowest forms of black men.”
          Moving to a different place to avoid these disrespectful men is not a feasible cost-effective option for many women. What is feasible (and free!) is for the men to stop being disrespectful. It shouldn’t have to matter where you live. The victim-blaming is telling women that happen to live in that place where these low-level black men also reside that they should expect this disrespectful behavior and either move or get used to it instead of putting the responsibility on the men perpetrating the act.

          • Drew Smith

            The first issue (which really refutes anything you have in the way of a point) is that THIS post is about THIS post. I appreciate that you’ve taken the time to read my other posts, but unfortunately, they don’t matter as it pertains to (again) THIS post. Second, no, it shouldn’t have to matter where you live regarding respect, but guess what, Lovebutton — it DOES. And, it’s going to continue mattering. That’s just that. Your message is one of idealism, and I dig it; however, this ain’t no movie [sic]. While it is feasible (and free!) for the men to stop being disrespectful, I wish you the very best of luck moving forward with an initiative to actually realize that charge. This is similar to how I wish government the best of luck preventing mass murders on accord of enabling stricter gun control. Exactly how are you going to go about making poor, ignorant and largely fatherless black men respect black women? I’m most interested in your response, and will be happy to toss a couple of ducats in the pot for the cause, ma’am. Your go.

            • Really?

              Condescending tone aside, I agree with your point that my position is idealistic, and possibly just as ridiculous as yours.
              When you find this group of women that can nonchalantly pick up and move their entire lives to avoid an issue that surpasses geographical boundaries, I would be most impressed.

              • Drew Smith

                Fair enough. Solid point(s) throughout. I apologize about said condescending tone. And, my point about moving is idealistic, but much more realistic than the notion that changing the mindset of unfortunate souls is even a possibility. No matter our current circumstances, we all posses the ability to change our reality. That’s the inherent message I’m trying to get across. The animation, so to speak, was a bit extra. Have an excellent evening, and I do appreciate the conversation.

                • Really?

                  Likewise.
                  Have a great night.

                • Michiko

                  You solution is for women to just move instead of men being taught to respect women. And, I see that you had no response to my previous comment.

                  • Drew Smith

                    Sorry, I didn’t see a previous comment. It’s a little trying to find responses at times. I’ll go back and take a look. As for this particular comment, I like your point — in theory. We shouldn’t have to lock our doors at night in fear of someone breaking in and taking our belongings, or harming us, but unfortunately, that is REALITY. Per my message above, I’m all for supporting the charge of systematically changing the behavior of largely poor, ignorant and fatherless Black males, but I’m too busy doing for me and mine, so I have to leave it up to you (generally speaking). It’s simple, Michiko: Control what you can control in your life. To me, it’s much more feasible to work hard, gain some semblance of financial wealth, and change the environment in which you CHOOSE to live — to say nothing for bringing children into said world. Otherwise, keep complaining while doing NOTHING. Have a productive day.

          • Michiko

            EXACTLY!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Latrece-Hoskins/100002627012546 Latrece Hoskins

    good article. a polite “hi.” etc is fine. lasciviousness not tolerated.

  • KamJos

    Oh Gawd, so glad I moved out of my black neighborhood and don’t have to deal with this B.S. I won’t raise a daughter in that mess either. Politeness does not work.

    • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

      You are right. Politeness does not work.

  • KamJos

    I’m pretty sure he didn’t get the non-black woman by saying “Ay yo ma, let me holla at you for a minute.” randomly on the street.

  • Nisha

    Handsome brothas don’t have to pull lines and act a fool to meet a woman.

  • UmmYeahOK

    I was just explaining this to someone the other day. When men are met with what they deem angry responses from women, it’s not because of that particular guy necessarily, it’s because of the male gender in general. IMHO, black men are the worst offenders too…grunting, smirking, gawking. It’s VERY uncomfortable. Women are ogled, cat-called, and creepily stared at from the time we’re 11 or 12 years old. After years of dealing with that type of behavior, especially when walking past a group of guys, we’re just tired of it, over it.

    • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

      Exactly.

  • http://www.yourtango.com/users/cheekee-baby cheekee baby

    You don’t OWE a man a smile. Who cares if he thinks your a bad attitude having black woman? Woman have the right to interact however the h@ll they want to without being degraded or made to feel bad for that choice.

    • iHeartMarijuana

      See, that’s the whole problem in itself. You think smiles are given out because people are OWED smiles, and that’s not why normal people smile. Think about it – when was the last time you ever smiled at someone because you thought they were owed a smile? lol. Probably never, because that’s not what people smile for. People smile because they are pleasant people. It’s not about what other people think, it’s about who you are and how you feel on the inside. And no, nobody on the planet has the right to act however the hell they want – the right to and the ability to are different things. Actions have consequences, like it or not. There’s a really defensive attitude some women seem to be saying they have towards men and I just can’t. I’m not that angry that my thoughts before leaving my house are, “Grr, I’m going to act however the hell I want and nobody can do anything!” lol. Anyway, it’s not about owing, it’s about common courtesy, and having a general positive attitude.

      • http://www.yourtango.com/users/cheekee-baby cheekee baby

        Sooo you perceive them as being angry because they don’t feel like smiling up in every dude’s face that approaches them? That’s a YOU problem all day long. You cannot dictate how someone else decides to carry themselves through life. You just can’t, and frankly if you equate not being a happy person by not entertaining the attentions of strangers you have a skewed one way outlook on life. The reality is most women get approached all of the time. Speaking JUST for myself 6 out 10 times the man approaches me in a rude, aggressive, manner. If you think I’m some miserable person because I don’t bestow upon that knucklehead a smile you might want to do some self reflecting and find out why you need the approval and good opinion of strangers. IJS

        • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

          Say it again, buddy.

      • Drew Smith

        Excellent, ma’am. The majority of these women simply don’t get it. It’s sad.

        • iHeartMarijuana

          Thanks. I think it really just boils down to poor upbringing or lack of intelligence to sort out the difference between being pro-female and being anti-male. Some people hear key-words and catch-phrases and just misuse their concepts in an attempt to justify their opinions. Like the girl above saying something about being “degraded … for that choice.” Nobody here even did that, it was a discussion. Talk about being defensive. But beyond this discussion, how is a man saying, “Hey, smile.” degrading? Sometimes I get deep in thought and my face just frowns up because I am thinking hard about something… and a man will walk by and say, “hey, smile” and I think to myself, “Gee, I must have been looking angry.” lol. And I feel like it’s a nice thing – I mean a stranger is offering you to SMILE so you will be happy…. only a bitter woman can find a way to turn that into a negative thing. It is what it is though. I could type about this until my fingers fall off, but I’m not trying to convince anyone to change, I was just stating my opinion.

          • Drew Smith

            I get it; I dig it; I heart it. The general disposition of many women makes no sense to me. They should never, ever in a million years wonder why they receive the treatment they receive from certain men. Frowning and scowling??? Are you effin’ kidding me??? That’s disgusting. I’m one of six children (4 older sisters and a younger bro), and I had to tell my eldest sister one time that her attitude was beyond disgusting, and that she was gonna die alone and miserable. That’s the recourse for many of these women. I don’t give a flying F what your situation is, your disposition is yours, and yours alone. Figure it out. Have an excellent evening (or night, depending on your geographic location), ma’am.

    • iHeartMarijuana

      See, that’s the whole problem in itself. You think smiles are given out because people are OWED smiles, and that’s not why normal people smile. Think about it – when was the last time you ever smiled at someone because you thought they were owed a smile? lol. Probably never, because that’s not what people smile for. People smile because they are pleasant people. It’s not about what other people think, it’s about who you are and how you feel on the inside. And no, nobody on the planet has the right to act however the hell they want – the right to and the ability to are different things. Actions have consequences, like it or not. There’s a really defensive attitude some women seem to be saying they have towards men and I just can’t. I’m not that angry that my thoughts before leaving my house are, “Grr, I’m going to act however the hell I want and nobody can do anything!” lol. Anyway, it’s not about owing, it’s about common courtesy, and having a general positive attitude.

  • Drew Smith

    I don’t know what time it is in the streets, but I’ve never had a woman scowl at me, or refuse to return a smile. I have an overwhelming abundance of women meet my “Hi,” or smile with an enthused “Hello,” or honest smile. I guess my body language communicates that a “Hi,” is just that sometimes, as is a smile. I suppose I can’t underestimate a woman’s intuition regarding a man’s intention. Good talk. Have an excellent day, people.

    • yeppers

      You are not a woman nor have you ever been……i guess. So how would you understand our intuition on what a mans intention is. Young girls are taught to be alot more protective over our lives and bodies than men are. Its sort of a natural thing to be a little off and cautious with strange men staring/leering at us. I know you wouldnt know that as a man but im letting u know we arent built or wired the same.

      • Drew Smith

        I know. That’s why I wrote, “I suppose I can’t underestimate a woman’s intuition…”

    • yeppers

      You are not a woman nor have you ever been……i guess. So how would you understand our intuition on what a mans intention is. Young girls are taught to be alot more protective over our lives and bodies than men are. Its sort of a natural thing to be a little off and cautious with strange men staring/leering at us. I know you wouldnt know that as a man but im letting u know we arent built or wired the same.

  • CeCe

    WELL SAID!!

  • scandalous7

    Thank you thank you thank you for this article, you articulated my sentiments to the T!!!! im over agressive black men simply tryna get in my pants and dont even whant to get to know me. I dont have time to figure out who is and who isn’t trying every time I get approached by one either so they all get the same treatment…*severe side eye/ eye roll/ huff/puff*…aint nobody got time fer that!

  • iHeartMarijuana

    Also one thing I forgot to mention is something my boyfriend actually taught me a long time ago. If you’re worried about a man being aggressive, worried that he might try to hurt you in any way, the last thing you want to do is get an attitude with him. Someone here commented that you don’t know what kind of crazy intentions strangers have and that you shouldn’t smile at them. It’s true that strangers can be crazy and you have NO idea what type of people these guys on the street are. Fine, but think about that. The guy on the corner approaches you and says, “Ey shawty, let me take you out”. He might be drunk, he might be aggressive or in your space. Should you really frown your face up at this person and say, “Hell no!” That seems a lot more risky to me than just smiling and quickly walking on. If anything, smiling and walking away will confuse them, not turn them into a lust-driven psycho who must rape you right now. But getting an attitude with a guy like that is like looking for trouble.

    • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

      You seem to be really against women being able to display an emotions other than smiling.

      • iHeartMarijuana

        I don’t seem like that at all. You’re simply not allowing yourself to absorb certain parts of what I write. Take the time to read what’s being said. You’re ignoring the many times I’ve stated that giving no response is much better than being rude, which could cause scary, negative responses from an aggressive man.

        • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

          That is not correct. I HAVE taken the time to read and absorb what you have said. You haven’t presented any arguments that I haven’t seen already when it comes to this topic. I haven’t ignored anything either. As I have told you more than once, more often than not, giving no response is just as likely to make a man not leave a woman alone. Why? BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE DEEM NO RESPONSE AS BEING RUDE. You don’t care that men are aggressive and impose themselves on random women. You only care about how women respond to the behavior, when really, men should be taught and understand that their behavior isn’t appropriate.

          • iHeartMarijuana

            You told me that once before, and it was incorrect then and now. You don’t know what I care about, you’re just angry, which just makes it obvious that that’s the reason why you frown and mean mug all the time. It really has nothing to do with men, that’s just how you are as a person.

            • http://www.facebook.com/people/Latrece-Hoskins/100002627012546 Latrece Hoskins

              that’s rather illogical. raven is talking about men being disrespectful. how did you come to the assumption that she’s “bitter”and “angry”? because she won’t tolerate disrespectful men? she’s said nothing against men as a whole.

              • iHeartMarijuana

                No, you didn’t see the whole conversation. It’s not just on this comment, it’s from a long series of her being combative in her responses.

                • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

                  How am I being combative? Is it because I don’t agree with you? I don’t agree with the way you make excuses for men treating women with disrespect.

                  • iHeartMarijuana

                    Not at all. You’re being combative by being rude and ignoring certain things being said / only hearing what you want to hear and making underhanded insults and just overall being combative and unpleasant.

                    • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

                      I have ignored nothing you said. In fact, in two other posts I addressed everything you said and in return, you presented an argument that did not address my responses to you. I am not sorry that if the way I presented my opinion is of a tone that you do not like, but everything I said is still valid. All in all, I am done discussing this with you.

                    • iHeartMarijuana

                      Saying, “everything I said is still valid,” won’t make it true. Nothing you said had real validity as anything other than an opinion. I’m not here to argue so I’m not presenting arguments. I’m merely sharing my opinion. Goodbye.

                    • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

                      For the last time – I did not ignore anything you said. You keep saying that, but have not presented anything to back up that claim. Likewise, I did NOT say that you said women should be forced to smile.

                    • iHeartMarijuana

                      Cool story.

                    • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

                      You are getting too caught up in focusing on who you think the writer is and not what is being said. Don’t allow your emotions to overtake your ability to be reasonable. I don’t agree with you, and you don’t agree with me, so no further response is needed from you.

                    • iHeartMarijuana

                      Lol. Utterly bizarre. You got all that from “cool story”???? You need to relax and chill it on out.

                      And… Who I think the writer is? Did you mean to send this comment to someone else or something? I never even asked who she was, it doesn’t matter who she is. Was it a mistake??. As far as emotions and being reasonable, that’s just your way of sending an underhanded insult. Literally all I said was “cool story” – that’s like totally void of any emotion.

                      But regardless of all of that – I believe you should grow up and take your own advice and stop being silly. If no further response was needed you could have also given a two-word response and not continued to converse. Just chill.

                    • iHeartMarijuana

                      Oh, I see what you meant there, that had me confused. By “the writer” – you meant yourself, the writer of the comments. Gotcha. But the article was about who all of us are, as women who either mean mug or don’t mean mug.

                    • iHeartMarijuana

                      Lol. Utterly bizarre. You got all that from “cool story”???? You need to relax and chill it on out.

                      And… Who I think the writer is? Did you mean to send this comment to someone else or something? I never even asked who she was, it doesn’t matter who she is. Was it a mistake??. As far as emotions and being reasonable, that’s just your way of sending an underhanded insult. Literally all I said was “cool story” – that’s like totally void of any emotion.

                      But regardless of all of that – I believe you should grow up and take your own advice and stop being silly. If no further response was needed you could have also given a two-word response and not continued to converse. Just chill.

    • http://www.yourtango.com/users/cheekee-baby cheekee baby

      You don’t owe any man a smile or any other pleasantries you don’t choose to bestow. So he thinks you have an attitude, who gives a f*ck?

      • iHeartMarijuana

        I never said you owed anyone a smile, read what I wrote. Either way, I’m not going to walk around with a chip on my shoulder.

        • http://www.yourtango.com/users/cheekee-baby cheekee baby

          Maybe your love of that MJ has you mellow and you don’t mind being accosted by strange dudes. Your prerogative really.

  • NubiaDiva

    Black women have an attitude because it has become socially accepted in our culture. Men have had to accept it because in the60’s 70’s and 80’s many of our men became so engrossed in the drug culture that women were left alone and vulnerable. That attitude was our resentment and our defense against the whole damn world that didn’t care for us and our men that couldn’t find it in themselves to protect us. If a man spent 5, 10, 15 years on drugs what right does he then have to come and expect a certain behavior from a woman? These burned & broken women were left to raise daughters who mirrored what they saw. Once a behavior has engrained for a generation or more it is hell to get rid of..

    That doesn’t justify it. We still need to work on that.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kara.niranjana Kara Niranjana

      How unbelievably OFF.

  • Bananatella

    There is a way to tell a woman she is attractive in a classy way without setting one’s self up to come across as inappropriate. Since this subject has the spotlight on Black men as those making such advances i can say that I’ve seen this accomplished many times. I think that it depends on the upbringing of the man and his relationship with women he is close to in his own life.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Latrece-Hoskins/100002627012546 Latrece Hoskins

      well said.

  • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

    You response is just all kinds of wrong.

    I’ll say this though – NO WOMAN OWES A MAN A SMILE! A woman does not need to ‘just smile’, because ‘just smiling’ at a man makes him think a woman is interested, which is why men ask women to smile in the first place.

    • iHeartMarijuana

      I’m not insinuating that women owe men a smile, but why frown your face up and be rude back? Two wrongs don’t make a right. I said that if you don’t want to smile, giving no reaction rather than giving a frown and saying something rude is a better option to get a man to leave you alone. Some men think a frowning woman is a challenge. Or it opens the door for them to say something stupid like, “Hey girl, smile.” or whatever. If you simply do nothing at all, don’t even acknowledge it, he’ll go away faster. Also, who cares if they think you’re interested for smiling? That’s something wrong with him, not you. So what – if you’re not interested, they will soon see that you’re not when you walk away after you smiled and politely said, “No thanks.” I’m not going to let people force me into NOT smiling just because THEY get the wrong idea. It’s a concept of just not being rude, and not showing to the world that you’re just a mean-spirited angry lady.

      • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

        “I’m not insinuating that women owe men a smile, but why frown your face up and be rude back?”

        :It’s a natural response to rude/aggressive behavior. You do know that women have a range of emotions and are entitled to display whichever ones they deem appropriate, right?

        “I said that if you don’t want to smile, giving no reaction rather than giving a frown and saying something rude is a better option to get a man to leave you alone.”

        :As I said, it’s a natural response to rude/aggressive behavior. Also, even when there is no reaction from a woman, men will continue with their behavior because they do believe really that women owe them their time and attention if they deem her attractive.

        “Some men think a frowning woman is a challenge. Or it opens the door for them to say something stupid like, “Hey girl, smile.” or whatever.”

        :That’s not a woman’s fault. That’s men choosing to ignore a woman’s right to be left alone when she has shown that she does not want to be bothered.

        “Also, who cares if they think you’re interested for smiling? That’s something wrong with him, not you.”

        What do you mean who cares? Have you been reading the comments? Women here, including myself have stated that smiling at a man brings more attention. More attention that that woman was trying to avoid in the first place.

        “So what – if you’re not interested, they will soon see that you’re not when you walk away after you smiled and politely said, “No thanks.”

        But, there isn’t always an opportunity to walk away. You could be at a bus stop, on a bus, waiting in line, or working in customer service. I can’t even begin to give you a number of how many men have FOLLOWED ME when I ignored them. You, yourself said that a man may think a frowning woman is a challenge. It’s the same thing if a woman says “No thanks!” A lot of men do not care about whether or not a woman is interested in them. They only care about what they want. This article was about men being aggressive. Aggressive behavior from men does not deserve a polite response.

        “I’m not going to let people force me into NOT smiling just because THEY get the wrong idea.”

        AND MANY OF US WOMEN AREN’T GOING TO LET MEN FORCE US INTO SMILING.

        “It’s a concept of just not being rude, and not showing to the world that you’re just a mean-spirited angry lady.”

        Is this what this is about for you? – Wanting people to not think you are a ‘mean-spirited, angry lady’? For the rest of us, it is about not letting random men on the street control our emotions and facial expressions for their own selfish benefit.

        • mac

          “For the rest of us, it is about not letting random men on the street
          control our emotions and facial expressions for their own selfish
          benefit.”

          If you’re walking around with a frown to keep random men away, you do see the irony in the above statement, right?

          • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

            No, I don’t think that is ironic. I, personally don’t walk around with a frown on my face.

  • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

    That is what a lot of this about – Women boasting the egos of men, because a woman who isn’t smiling at every man she comes across is some how offensive.

  • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

    It might take 30 seconds to turn a man down, but depending on the environment, you may have to be around this guy for 10 minutes+ (bus stop, waiting in line, working in customer service, shopping around a store etc) as he begs and disrespects you for your attention because he can’t take no for an answer.

    • iHeartMarijuana

      That’s true, but that’s a different scenario. That’s after the fact. Obviously after you’ve smiled and said no a couple times, if he keeps persisting, you have every reason to frown and tell him he needs to stop and he’s being disrespectful. But a woman isn’t wrong for initially smiling. What if he’s NOT the type to beg and disrespect? Does he deserve a frown just because other men might? Of course not. It’s common courtesy. Walking around with a mean mug on your face seems like punishing yourself for the actions of disrespectful men. Walking around mean mugging is different than frowning after someone has done something bad to you.

      • hollyw

        The fact that you seem to be missing is that men (or any other stranger) do not ‘deserve’ a smile, nor 30 sec of any human being’s time, esp. someone who is a complete stranger to you. I personally don’t frown, but I also don’t frown. I either ignore or look blank-faced. Even if a subtle approach isn’t doing outright disrespect or ‘doing something bad’ to me, it still implies that I’m obligated to respond to every single advance coming my way, b/c I am just so lucky to receive any man’s attention…when I am not. It’s a very sexist perspective.

        On a given day, I’ll receive approx. 15 hollers from my place to the subway to work and back, and absolutely be thankless for ALL of them. You know how much time that’d take out of my day to respond to each?? You speak of men deserving a frown, but do women, minding their own business, deserve unwanted advances day in and day out that they should feel obligated to attend to for simply having a vagina?? Com’on son!

        • iHeartMarijuana

          I wouldn’t necessarily call that a fact. I think everyone deserves a smile.
          But you must have missed my other comment, which I get, you’re not gonna sit through and read everything here. I actually was suggesting that giving the blank face / no response is a much better idea than frowning and saying something rude.
          It’s not about being grateful or feeling lucky that men approached you, it’s just about not being bitter and angry about it. I feel like that assigns WAY too much power over me and how I carry myself. It’s not sexist, it’s maintaining your own personal standards, as a person, as a woman, for how you choose to address the world. I just refuse to let rude men rule over me to the point where now I’ve gotta walk around on defense, worried, frowning, angry, all of that. No. I’m not sure about you, but I can just tell a lot of women here have never tried the “blank face / no response” or “smile and keep it moving” methods to dealing with men. Because it just makes it so much easier – you get to keep being happy and positive, and you still don’t have to deal with men’s stupid advances.
          I mean at the end of the day, whether you smile or frown or give no response, you’re not going home with the guy. To me that just says it all.

        • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

          Exactly.

      • hollyw

        The fact that you seem to be missing is that men (or any other stranger) do not ‘deserve’ a smile, nor 30 sec of any human being’s time, esp. someone who is a complete stranger to you. I personally don’t frown, but I also don’t frown. I either ignore or look blank-faced. Even if a subtle approach isn’t doing outright disrespect or ‘doing something bad’ to me, it still implies that I’m obligated to respond to every single advance coming my way, b/c I am just so lucky to receive any man’s attention…when I am not. It’s a very sexist perspective.

        On a given day, I’ll receive approx. 15 hollers from my place to the subway to work and back, and absolutely be thankless for ALL of them. You know how much time that’d take out of my day to respond to each?? You speak of men deserving a frown, but do women, minding their own business, deserve unwanted advances day in and day out that they should feel obligated to attend to for simply having a vagina?? Com’on son!

      • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

        No, not obviously after I have smiled, because I don’t smile at random, aggressive men. A woman isn’t wrong for initially smiling, but she doesn’t have to in the first place, because for some of us, we can read someone’s demeanor and know that we want nothing to do with them before they even approach. Quite frankly, I have never met a man on the street, or in public who didn’t make several attempts to engage me (beg and be disrespectful). It doesn’t matter whether or not a man deserves a frown, but about how I feel about the situation. For some of us women who have been harassed for 10+ years, walking around with a ‘mean mug’ is the only way we can walk in peace. Men don’t have this problem because they are allowed to exist without being interrupted.

        • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

          I also want you to know that more often than not these men aren’t doing anything to make a woman smile in the first place.

        • iHeartMarijuana

          I wasn’t asking if you had ever smiled at someone. I was stating that after you smile and say no, if he keeps persisting and then you frown, that’s different from walking around with a frown constantly. A woman doesn’t have to smile, and she doesn’t have to frown either. She can simply ignore. Sometimes we can read people’s demeanor, and sometimes people’s demeanor doesn’t represent who they actually are. And not wanting anything to do with a person has nothing to do with walking around bitter and angry. It does matter whether or not a PERSON (male or female) deserves a frown. How you feel about the situation isn’t everything. Common decency and respect is much bigger than our own personal feelings. All women have been harassed for 10+ years, and I am not going to let that run my life and make me a miserable person walking with a frown. Men who I don’t even want anything to do with do not have that kind of power over me.

          • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

            You didn’t need to ask me that. I am telling you that I do not because you said, “Obviously after you’ve smiled..”, and now you are saying, “I was stating that after you smile and say no…”

            You’re right, a woman doesn’t have to smile, nor does she have to frown, BUT, if a man’s behavior makes her uncomfortable enough that she frowns, then she is more than entitled to do so. Just as you say that a woman can ‘simply ignore’ the behavior, men can simply not be aggressive with women on the street.

            “Sometimes we can read people’s demeanor, and sometimes people’s demeanor doesn’t represent who they actually are.”

            This is true, but if one has experienced the same type of behavior in the same manner each time, then the chances of them being right are going to be much higher.

            “And not wanting anything to do with a person has nothing to do with walking around bitter and angry.”

            I didn’t equate the two.

            “How you feel about the situation isn’t everything.”

            Expect, it is.

            “Men who I don’t even want anything to do with do not have that kind of power over me.”

            Expect, they do because you think women should smile at men even if she doesn’t want to.

            Now, maybe you should take the time to read what I am saying, because you did not respond to much of what I actually said.

            • iHeartMarijuana

              No, men don’t have that power over me, sorry. Saying that they do won’t make it true. I’m not the one being controlled to the point where I can’t even smile or give a blank expression – forced into a frown. That’s not me. And don’t be a liar. You’re pretending I said things just to prove your point, that should tell you something right there. You keep pretending I said women are forced to smile and ignoring the dozens of times I’ve already said to just not acknowledge them. It’s just silly at this point. You did equate the idea of simply not wanting a man to walking around mean mugging, bitter, angry, pissed at the world and men. I would be exhausted to even try to keep that up. I read what you wrote but I’m not going to be forced to respond to your rude, snarky and confused comments. You’re an angry person, and I’m not. And I never told anyone what to do, I just said what I thought of women who do that.

              • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

                SMMFH. You are truly ignorant of your own behavior and comments. You are just not getting it. If this thread weren’t so long I’d go back and point out everything you said. But, as I said, you just aren’t getting it.

                • iHeartMarijuana

                  Thanks for proving my point. Angry, rude, and combative and not absorbing the things being said. I don’t get things that are nonsensical, no. And yes, it is too long of a thread and it was never my intention to discuss with you or change your mind.

                  • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

                    I think you are wrong, and that is final.

                    • iHeartMarijuana

                      Of course you think I’m wrong, that was initial. You thinking I am wrong won’t make me wrong though. I am able to see that it’s not about right and wrong, it’s a matter of how you carry yourself and it’s not my job to convince you to stop having a bad attitude.

                    • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

                      Excuse me – Let me clarify. I meant that your opinion about me is wrong.

                    • iHeartMarijuana

                      No, it isn’t. It’s MY opinion, lol. And you DO have a bad attitude.

                    • iHeartMarijuana

                      You’re welcome. I know how you carry yourself online, and you have a bad attitude and are rude, snarky and egotistical. That’s all I need to know to have formed my opinion which you continue to prove.

                    • Guest

                      Of course you think I’m wrong, that was initial. Thinking I’m wrong won’t make me wrong though. I am able to see that it’s not about right and wrong, it’s all in the way that you carry yourself and it’s not my job to convince you to stop having a bad attitude.

                  • darcampb

                    I love when people throw the “you’re angry” card at women, as if that’s supposed to be insulting. better to be angry for the right reasons than a willfully ignorant, judgmental, antagonistic male apologist buffoon as “Guest” presents themself to be

  • Babydoll 70

    They’re usually not handsome. No worries.

  • Candacey Doris

    It’s not even about them having to try harder. It’s about the creep factor for me. The hollers, the stares, they all make you feel like you have to lock the doors when you get in. The mean face is mostly to hide how creeped out i get when some guy i never met is in my personal space, touching me and acting like he knows me. Please don’t think you should get that close to any woman you just saw on the street. Maybe it’s ok in the club (you can’t even hear unless you’re close there) but never in the street, on the bus, or some other normal public place. I’m serious, i have mace and i will use it.

  • mac

    nail. on. head. *slow clap*

  • Babydoll 70

    Plus it’s been said to “not show your teeth to every guy you meet” I believe it was Bettye Wright in No Pain No Gain.

  • mac

    @ that last line — ex – freakin – actly!!!!

  • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

    “While talking about this, a friend brought up the fact that often when he rides public transportation or walks the street and sees a beautiful black woman, he’ll send a glance her way and even a smile.”

    Does he smile at women before or after she sees him? I ask this because from personal experience, most of the time when men smile at me, it is after I have caught them ogling at me lustfully or just down right staring me down. It’s to the point where I can sense that a man is going to stare at me or harass me.

  • nutmeg26

    I had a similar experience today at my local bakery in Brooklyn. For as long I can remember some men (mostly of Caribbean/West Indian) have this habit of creepily staring a woman up and down and smiling. How is that flattering? Then you expect me to respond. Cha, he got the wind of the “stankness” on my face and motioned about-face. I guess the men projecting these “signals” have this patriarcal attitude of them owning women and being able to treat them anyway. But I’m sure some women respond to this foolishness so the cycle continues.

    • SMHgurl24

      And thats the problem right there! These girls thinking life is a music video and think being approached like a piece of meat is how to get a good man or money in the pocket.. Smh

      • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

        That’s not the problem. The problem is “I guess the men projecting these “signals” have this patriarchal attitude of them owning women and being able to treat them anyway.”

        • SMHgurl24

          And these women allow them to do so. Its a two way street, the more response these idiots get, the more they’re going to do it. Women need to learn not to respond to the attention..

          • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

            But more often than not, this kind of behavior isn’t responded to, but men do it anyway. You seem to want to blame women for the behavior of men.

            • SMHgurl24

              It is responded to, might not be from the particular lady walking down the street but sometime in that fool’s life he did get a response from his behavior and will keep doing it until there is no doubt in his mind that his approach doesn’t work. And please don’t go down that road, I am in no way putting the blame on men’s behavior solely on women but it is a two way street and women are partially to blame. It doesn’t have to be a particular person like you or me its usually a whole group of women that are generalized and are seen accepting this behavior. The media has done a amazing job in doing this. Influential people reinforcing that women like being treated as property by seeing the outcome of the behavior in movies, videos or even in real life of women responding to it. Until the male superiority complex is done away with we must learn to ignore it by all means. It sucks but thats life

          • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

            But more often than not, this kind of behavior isn’t responded to, but men do it anyway. You seem to want to blame women for the behavior of men.

          • http://www.facebook.com/kara.niranjana Kara Niranjana

            Agreed. They wouldn’t do it if they weren’t getting some type of attention. But i don’t think it’s women’s responsibility not to respond. I think men need to learn respect for women.

            • SMHgurl24

              We also must teach women to respect themselves and ignore unwanted attention. A response is a response no matter how you look at it. A snide comment toward them is all they need to keep going because they want the attention. Even if you, me or 100 other ladies ignore them, there will always be one or two that don’t ya know and those one or two could ruin it for everyone else. I’ve seen it and been in those situations myself so this isn’t coming from someone who doesn’t know what shes talking about.

      • SunshineBlossom

        I agree that this is part of the problem too. Booty implants, whose America’s Next Top Skripper, etc are demoralizing our young women and tricking them into thinking that if their body is like Kim Kartrashian then it’s valuable.

        • SMHgurl24

          exactally! this is more then boys being boys this is a whole entity in itself that needs to be examined before conclusions can be made. Ppl dont wanna see it that way tho, whatevers easier to understand is what they will go with smh..

          • yeppers

            I fully agree with both of you. Its this demoralizing society we live in today that make men feel like all women they deem as attractive and want to date need to act like hoes and be all over them when they approach you. If i am NOT interested in you or am taken I will make that known PERIOD. and If you dont know how to take no for an answer i will help you.

  • Grace

    I couldn’t agree more! We really need to educate Black/all men re: how to address women. From the time we’re 12, it’s like every aspect of our lives is turned into a single’s bar. Class up and do better!

    • SMHgurl24

      And not only how to address but how to approach a woman PERIOD! Don’t be walking up on people like you moving in for the kill. A good woman don’t play like that!

      • yeppers

        know thats right….I dont like creepers…Some women are more cautious and gracious than others. Dont weird me out.

    • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

      The problem is that men won’t listen to women. It’s frustrating that every time I walk out the door I am being treated as a dating opportunity for every other man on the street.

  • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

    Men don’t realize it is their very behavior that affects the way women interact with them.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Latrece-Hoskins/100002627012546 Latrece Hoskins

      amen!

  • Miss Zarah

    I understand why our demeanor might be off putting to a lot of guys but for every man that does want to seriously get to know you there are 10 guys approaching who only want to get to know whats between your legs. We contend with thoughts that make us feel that if we smile too much we might invite the wrong attention and look easy. We only want to be taken seriously so that transfers into our body language. That mean mug is to ward off the potential creepers that you encounter day to day going about your b.i. Around my way the creepers are Jamaican men on bikes with bells -old enough to be my father- riding by and saying things like “yuh body look hectic” and “how you stay so thick and nice eee” – ummm no thanks.

    • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

      A woman doesn’t even have to smile at a man for him to get the wrong idea. Just looking in a man’s direction will make him think you are interested. I’ve lost count the number of times I have had men and young boys who have pulled over to the side of the road to try and pick me up because I stared at them for following me or taking too many glances at me as they drove by.

      • Babydoll 70

        Yeah and some will think you’re obsessed with them if you smile at them or even say hello. ugggh. You can’t win for losing.

      • SunshineBlossom

        Exactly!

  • mac

    Can definitely relate. At 11, once I grew a little bit of a booty, you couldn’t tell these men nothing. From there on out it was “Hey lil mama” this and “where yo man at?!” that.

    Annoying as it may be, I don’t let it affect my interactions with men at this age. If they say hello, I say hello right back and continue on my way. They smile, I smile back. Just out of basic politeness. *shrugs*
    Men usually don’t try me with the disrespect, I like to attribute that to how I carry myself. But on the occasion it does happen, I’m not going to let some isolated incidents change my attitude.

    it’s not too hard to tell who is serious and who is just looking for a good time. For starters, I wouldn’t be banking on someone who approaches me on the street ,or at a bar, or public transportation, as a serious candidate. But perhaps that’s just me.

    • Drew Smith

      “For starters, I wouldn’t be banking on someone who approaches me on the street ,or at a bar, or public transportation, as a serious candidate. But perhaps that’s just me.” <— I'm confused as to why YOU get to be on the street, at a bar, or riding public transportation and maintain your classification as a "serious candidate" for a man; yet, a man doing the same damned thing (at the same damned time) somehow loses his potential to be a worthy mate. How does that make even an iota of sense? A maphucka can't walk on the street, hit the bar, or ride public transportation anymore??? I better not ever catch you talking about black men checking for non-black women in person, because if I do, I'm gonna give you one hell of a hug — and, you're gonna like it.

      • mac

        How many serious relationships of people you know started after they met on the street, on the bus or at a bar? Ah don’t worry, I’ll wait.

        • Drew Smith

          That thought process is stupid, mac. Who gives a flying one where a solid relationship starts? The only question that matters is: Where is the relationship going??? Geez, man. Y’all gotta get off that line of thinking. You won’t be winning with it — guaranteed.

    • Drew Smith

      “For starters, I wouldn’t be banking on someone who approaches me on the street ,or at a bar, or public transportation, as a serious candidate. But perhaps that’s just me.” <— I'm confused as to why YOU get to be on the street, at a bar, or riding public transportation and maintain your classification as a "serious candidate" for a man; yet, a man doing the same damned thing (at the same damned time) somehow loses his potential to be a worthy mate. How does that make even an iota of sense? A maphucka can't walk on the street, hit the bar, or ride public transportation anymore??? I better not ever catch you talking about black men checking for non-black women in person, because if I do, I'm gonna give you one hell of a hug — and, you're gonna like it.

    • iHeartMarijuana

      I couldn’t have said it better. And I didn’t, lol, my comment was a mess compared to yours. But regardless, I agree that it’s just about the way you carry yourself. Even just by smiling and briskly continuing on your way, men can just tell not to waste their time trying to pester you. Basic politeness goes a long way. And I think there’s a (subtle) difference between just flashing a polite smile and giving a man a smile that says, “Hey, let’s talk.” I think it’s good that you pointed out not to let men you’re not even interested change your attitude. Why should we as women have to change up and become rude and angry and frown just because men want to hit on us? That’s their problem, I’m not going to lose my smile and common courtesy just because of that.

      • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

        Some women are approached aggressively by men more than others. If every day you left the house and was treated like a dating conquest and/or object, your attitude would begin to change.

        • mac

          Like I said above, that has been my life since 11 years old…every single day. Whether I’m dressed up or dressed down, out on the town, or just around the corner to run an errand. My attitude has not changed.

          You are right, some women are approached more aggressively than others. Now, I’d hate to throw in the “who are you attracting” argument, but it applies! I’m sorry. I’ve definitely noticed that as I’ve gotten older, carried myself better and my fashion choices have matured, the disrespectful cat calls have declined over the years. The majority of the time, we have a role to play in how much respect we receive. That’s not to suggest anything about you, because of course I’d have no way of knowing. Just throwing that out there.

          • SunshineBlossom

            I will agree with part of this too, but young girls really are objectified by their bodies and a young girl at 16 should not have to entertain those thoughts or just take it you know?

          • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

            The “Who are you attracting?” argument is a way for people to blame women for men’s behavior.

            There are a lot of factors that play into why some women are approached aggressively more than others. Most times, it is because of the location that woman has to travel in and her mode of transportation. For example, I use public transportation, so that puts me into contact with people more than I care for. Additionally, some women get approached more than others because a lot of men think she is attractive.

            I need for people to understand that there is a difference between what type of men approach a woman, and who that woman is actually attracted to herself and dates.

            • mac

              “I need for people to understand that there is a difference between what
              type of men approach a woman, and who that woman is actually attracted
              to herself and dates.”

              Absolutely. And I need people to understand that if you’re not attracting the type you are attracted to, then something is amiss.

              It’s not “blaming women for men’s behavior”, it’s taking a good honest look at yourself.
              I’m sure there are other beautiful women in your city, perhaps some even better looking than you, who are exposed to the same amount of men you are. I doubt they all experience the things you’re speaking of. So you have to ask yourself why you aren’t getting the respect they are?

              But if you’re intent on playing victim for all this negative attention you receive, I’m not one to stop you. Do continue

              • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

                You take the stance that a woman is doing something to bring this kind of attention on herself. I mentioned that a woman’s location and method of travel may put her in contact with more of the type of men who harass women, but you’ve conveniently ignored that. Unless you have talked to those other women, don’t make assumptions about what their experiences are. No one here is playing victim. But, if you are intent on blaming women for why men harass them, I am not one to stop you. But, you would be better off if you recognized that the problem doesn’t lie with women, but with the men who think it is okay to behave this way against women in the first place. Enough said.

          • iHeartMarijuana

            Actually, if you think about it – I mean really – obviously if you’re walking around looking like a boorish megabitch, the only guys who are going to approach you are going to be low-quality. No decent man is looking at a mean mugging angry frowner and thinking, “I sure would like to take her out” lol. I’m not accepting anyone’s advances regardless, but that’s not the point. The point is that the “who are you attracting” thing is definitely in play when you’re walking around looking angry. It has nothing to do with blaming anyone, it’s just about how you carry yourself.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Latrece-Hoskins/100002627012546 Latrece Hoskins

            “who are you attracting”? hmm. well i’ve been harassed by disrespectful men. i wonder if my loose t-shirt,jeans, and tennis shoes “attracted” their disrespectful behavior? in short, no woman is to blame for a man’s actions. a respectful man is respectful at all times.

          • tymetravelife

            “Now, I’d hate to throw in the “who are you attracting” argument, but it applies!”

            I have to ask, since you say that you’ve experienced this since you were 11 years old … How is an 11-year old child responsible for the type of grown azz men she’s attracting? Sorry, I’m just so creeped out that parents need to help their little girls “handle” the perverted sexuality of some grown men, when their little girls have absolutely no knowledge of adult sexual dynamics & therefore no knowledge of sexually aberrant OLD MEN. And little children should not have to be aware of anything but being children.

        • SunshineBlossom

          Honestly some types of women who don’t mind it are those that like it (consciously or subconsciously). But if I clearly have a ring and I’m telling you to leave me alone, then leave me alone! Ain’t nobody got time for all dat *sweet brown voice*. Especially when they try to talk to me when I’m out with my bf >.>…

        • iHeartMarijuana

          Every day I leave the house I am treated like a dating conquest and/or object. My attitude remains the same, I’m not going to let men’s bothersome ways dictate how I behave or feel inside.

      • mac

        get outta my head! lol you are taking the words right outta my mouth.

        “Even just by smiling and briskly continuing on your way, men can just tell not to waste their time trying to pester you.”

        ^This exactly. Men can tell a woman that doesnt have time or tolerance. And it has nothing to do with wearing a look on your face like you’re angry at the world.

        When you carry yourself with a certain class, sophistication, and aloofness, and are well-mannered, many of these men will be embarrassed to even bother you, let alone follow you around.

        But hey, if walking round looking ready to fight is working for them, then more power to them. What can I say lol. I on the other hand will continue to dictate my own mood and facial expressions

        • iHeartMarijuana

          We know what’s up, lol. To me it seems like there’s a bottom line here – look at the responses from the mean muggers – they are mean-spirited, angry, rude, on edge, defensive, etc, even just by having a conversation. The truth seems that it has nothing to do with men or being hit on. These women are just angry, rude, miserable women and have used men hitting on them as justification. I agree, I’m going to dictate my own mood and facial expressions. Only time I’m going to be walking around frowning is if I’m really upset about something unrelated to being hit on.

          • mac

            “The truth seems that it has nothing to do with men or being hit on.
            These women are just angry, rude, miserable women and have used men
            hitting on them as justification”

            LMAO exactly. Our method is working for us, theirs apparently isn’t, judging by these comments, so who really has room to talk here lol

            Y’alls issue goes way beyond the bounds of this comments section. Scowl to your heart’s content. I’m done here lol *exits stage left*

    • http://twitter.com/docbndgrl9113 Keesha (Киша)

      I absolutely agree with you! I mean people can react however they want, but why let some guy that you don’t even have the intention of being with or ever talking to again get some angry reaction from you? It’s not worth it to me.

  • GalaxyEmpress

    We mean mug because a lot of the black men are weak, stupid and ignorant. They’ve been turned against us and there seems to be a consorted effort to break the black woman down. That’s just a little bit of why some of us look so “mean.”

  • SheBe

    This is going to turn into that “smile” article debate real quick.

  • FAMURattler85

    This article is ON POINT!! So, what did the guys say after you said that? I wanna know more!

    • Victoria Uwumarogie

      They actually did that head nod thing where they let me know that they heard what I was trying to say. But did they REALLY hear me??? lol Who knows.

  • Bananatella

    As an AsianAmerican woman who grew up in South Seattle where the majority of residents are Black, Asian, African immigrant & Hispanic, i can say that Black women are not the only ones who dislike crude aggressive behavior on the part of strangers and to respond to such advances is just not accepted in the Asian community so to say that we Asian women are on the same social standards level as white women is very inaccurate.

    • Victoria Uwumarogie

      That’s not at all what I was saying. My male friend said, which is in the earlier part of the article, that he didn’t receive such a response from other women, meaning other women of other races. So in the latter part of the article I’m saying, while women of other races might respond nicer to the stare and smile approach (based on what he claimed), some black women don’t respond well to it all because of how men in our neighborhoods and in our past might have come at us. But off course, NO ONE likes to be aggressively hit on. I was just speaking on what I know about my own people, hence me saying early that I can’t testify to how other women of other races go through with this issue.

      • hollyw

        I don’t think what Bananatella said was to negate any of your points; I think she was disagreeing with the gentleman’s comparisons between Black women and others, which seemed to confuse their less defensive responses as being complacent of, or even welcoming these attentions, to say that, whether or not White/Asian/Hispanic women respond the same, we all equally dislike these types of advances from strangers in public.

        • Bananatella

          Yes, thankyou. That is what i was getting at.

    • satch

      you checking for biff and chip in most cases anyway not tyrone and jamal.i live in seattle too the deal here is white man/asian woman and black male/white woman.

  • Sol Rothstein

    Maybe you women should stop, if a group of black men are saying it’s not cool. Maybe you should listen.

    • Herm Cain

      Of course they won’t could these women being single in large numbers have anything to do with them being unapproachable nope not even if they hear it straight from a group of brothers mouths a lot of sisters are starting to have the woe is me complex

      • http://www.yourtango.com/users/cheekee-baby cheekee baby

        Happily married to a man who knew how to approach me in a respectful manner. Gee imagine that.

        • yeppers

          THANK YOU Cheekee….Im sorry some of these guys need to UNDERSTAND its not the safest thing in the world to make a pass at every man that pays you a compliment. With the crazy stalkers and general loony bins that walk the streets.. you think every cat call needs to turn into a relationship HERM CAIN??? Have a little candor about who you accept a pass from….If I am NOT INTERESTED IN YOU…I am going to make that known. PERIOD. With how I have been pulled on and groped (FULLY CLOTHED) i might add, by men who I have just politely smiled and said I was not interested. I dont have time for that mess u talking about….Get kicked in the nuts over here.

          • mac

            in his defense…he neither said or suggested anything of the sort.

            • yeppers

              Im sorry sweetheart…we dont live in care bear land….you honestly dont think a woman needs to worry about strangers intentions that approach her???..WOW. Im guess u live in some non violent alternate universe. BUT Im a young woman living by myself in a big city….Im not going to trust ANY STRANGE MAN that walks up to me unless he gives me a reason to. I DONT KNOW YOU.

              • mac

                lol Herm Cain says women ought to be more approachable. You interpret that as “turning every cat call into a relationship”.

                I say every guy isn’t ill intentioned, you interpret that as “a woman doesn’t need to worry about strangers intentions” at all.

                The straw man argument at its finest. Stop. Actually read what is being said.

                I live in one of the biggest cities in America by myself, I’m well of aware of the dangers of strangers approaching a woman.

                No one’s saying you have to give these men a damn Victoria Secret model seductive smile. Hell, you don’t even have to smile at all. But if you have to fix your face some kind of way just to ward off riff raff, maybe there’s a larger problem.

                A wise man once told me if you don’t want a dog, don’t sell dog food.

              • mac

                lol Herm Cain says women ought to be more approachable. You interpret that as “turning every cat call into a relationship”.

                I say every guy isn’t ill intentioned, you interpret that as “a woman doesn’t need to worry about strangers intentions” at all.

                The straw man argument at its finest. Stop. Actually read what is being said.

                I live in one of the biggest cities in America by myself, I’m well of aware of the dangers of strangers approaching a woman.

                No one’s saying you have to give these men a damn Victoria Secret model seductive smile. Hell, you don’t even have to smile at all. But if you have to fix your face some kind of way just to ward off riff raff, maybe there’s a larger problem.

                A wise man once told me if you don’t want a dog, don’t sell dog food.

            • hollyw

              It is baffling to me how easily men can bring up this Angry Black Woman complex while completely leaving themselves out of the equation. I mean, really?? Come back when you’re ready to have an unbiased discussion on the matter.

              • mac

                ….except I’m not a man. At least not since the last time I checked.

          • http://www.yourtango.com/users/cheekee-baby cheekee baby

            Why don’t these dudes that lurk a woman’s website call out these fools who disrespectfully approach woman? Where is the call to arms to let those men know that their behavior is affecting how women respond to all approaches? Surely the fact that every woman who’s posted in this thread has been frequently approached inappropriately would tell these lurkers that the problem isn’t just one sided. Nah but that just makes too much sense.

            • KamJos

              It’s pure cowardice. I’ve noticed this a lot. The men attack the women and tell them to change, but are reluctant to talk to other men and tell them to change.

              • http://www.yourtango.com/users/cheekee-baby cheekee baby

                The fact that they are even on this website tells me all I need to know about them and the “knowledge” they are trying to lay down.

            • Drew Smith

              1. It’s not lurking a women’s website anymore than you going to ESPN and commenting on the stories. Get serious.
              2. The last time I bore witness some Tomf*ckery was in college, and I blacked a dude’s eye for palming a chick’s hind parts without her permission. I’m not in school anymore, and don’t really go to house parties with early 20’s, so I’m not sure where to merely happen upon primal behavior, but I’ll be damned if I’m not gonna keep an eye out moving forward.

              • http://www.yourtango.com/users/cheekee-baby cheekee baby

                1. This website is FOR women ABOUT women, ESPN is a sports website (not one I visit) not a website FOR men ABOUT men. So that argument is baseless.
                2. I’m not clear on why your story is relevant to this particular article or my particular comment regarding you.

                • Drew Smith

                  1. Fine.
                  2. You’re not clear on how a story about “calling out” a dude for disrespectfully approaching a woman is relevant to this particular article??? I’m afraid I can’t help you there. Have a great weekend.

      • hollyw

        Not single, and nor have I or would I ever date a man who “hollers” at females publicly. I go for a more refined, educated type who knows how to respect a woman, and for the chicks out here still single, it’s b/c there’s not enough of THOSE types of men around. Boo and bye, honey.

      • Babydoll 70

        Who said these women are single. When I was engaged and with a clearly visible ring on my finger I still had knuckleheads approaching, how disrespectful is that. Men just aren’t taught the basics of being a gentleman anymore and now you want to blame the woman. Please stop.

    • http://www.yourtango.com/users/cheekee-baby cheekee baby

      Well a larger group of women are saying they don’t like being Holla at yet they continue to do it. Maybe they should listen . . .

      • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

        Right. I don’t know why this concept is hard for people to understand.

    • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

      A better idea would be for Black men to not harass women on the street.

    • Babydoll 70

      Maybe YOU should listen. Just cause a group of men say something does not mean it is right.

  • WhoMe

    Story of my life. I hate when guys will say “you cant smile?” Ok i am capable of smiling but do i really have to walk around cheesing all day while i’m out in public? I will look crazy! Lol. But I’m guilty of the mean mug poker face.

    • Stanley Dada

      Can you smile, please?

    • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

      I believe that men ask random women, “You can’t smile” because they sincerely believe that by virtue of them being men, women are naturally supposed to smile at them.

      • SunshineBlossom

        You are right about that.

  • shebaby

    well put!!! i totally agree

  • IllyPhilly

    Still don’t understand why some women mean mug. Is it so wrong to give a smile even with a turn down?

    • SunshineBlossom

      While I do agree about the mean mug *guilty as charged*, I think one of the reasons why we do it is exactly what was said before. We don’t know what is serious and what isn’t. And sometimes a nice gesture from us becomes an automatic signal for them to start talking like we are just as interested in them. And they don’t know how to take a hint sometimes. So that’s when the mean mug comes in (and plus I could be having a bad day and just want to be left alone).

      • IllyPhilly

        What if you’re turning away a good man or friend because of the gesture? If the dude is not touching you, why not smile. Hell, I’ve smiled and maced a touchy feely dude at the same time.

        • SunshineBlossom

          Lol, I’ll give that one to you. But I think it also depends on where we are at in our lives. If we are looking to date a guy, then sure. But if we generally are not looking for a man (or already have one), then I don’t think we should have to entertain a smile. But as always, if I’m having a great day, then I will even smile at my flatiron after burning my ears lol

          • IllyPhilly

            LOL

          • yeppers

            I completely agree sunshine….I mean as a young woman I was taught by my mother and grandmother not to walk around smiling at men and strangers….IT might be a southern thing. I dont know. But Unless you are genuinely interested in a man you see coming up to make conversation and seeing where his head is. I would refrain from smiling and making goo goo eyes at every dude that pay a compliment….thats just asking for trouble. I hate to be such a worry wort. But thats just the level of caution i have…Im not starved for attention from men that i need them all to approach me. Its a safety issue for me. Men yall can do that cus yall can fight…But this man smiling at me might have a rope and a knife waiting in his back pocket for me…NAAA IM GOOD.

            • Babydoll 70

              Exactly.

            • SunshineBlossom

              We definitely cut from the same cloth (my family is southern), and yes, that was exactly what I was warned about since I was a little girl.

        • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

          Again, a woman does not owe a man a smile.

          • Babydoll 70

            Basically they feel women should change their ways for strangers when they don’t want to even change for someone they know. Hmmm suspect.

      • FAMURattler85

        Agreed.

    • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

      It’s not wrong, but a woman does not have to smile at a man when she turns him down. The problem is that men will read body language to be in their favor because they won’t accept no for an answer.

      • yeppers

        Thank you….and its funny because they have not a problem showing their disinterest in a woman but it seems to be a DOUBLE STANDARD that women are supposed to smile like Mary freakin Poppins when we are NOT INTERESTED. If a man wants you and u dont want him…believe me you have to MEAN MUG for him to get the picture…Guys are taught to go after what they want, and they dont care that you arent interested most of the time. THEY WILL KEEP TRYING!!! mean texts, unaswered phone calls, tweets… AND ALL!!! YOU LITERALLY HAVE TO YELL IT FROM A MOUNTAIN TOP “I AM NOT INTERESTED IN YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

        • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

          And even when you tell a man you are not interested, he’ll keeping trying like it is a game, thinking that he can create an attraction rather than that attraction being natural.

          • SunshineBlossom

            Because then we become a challenge to them to see if they can get us.

            • THE RAVENS WILL WIN THE SB!

              Right.

          • yeppers

            yesssssss!!!! has happened to me plenty of times. Especially those gym smiles , every ninja want to be a workout partner after that. I just smiled because u were staring at my a.. creep. lmaooooo

    • hollyw

      YES lol! B/c for whatever reason, men (esp. Black men) have been taught to take complacency or politeness for weakness, and just will not take no for an answer. I’m sorry, but for every guy w/ common sense on the street, there were 9 others who just completely disrespected that female before you got to her, and if you’re a man and have male friends, you know this to be true, so my question to guys who still continue to do this is: Why even do it?? Do you honestly believe that your chances of having a friendly exchange or more w/ a chick you just crossed on a public corner are anything but 1 in 1000?? No seriously, I want an answer lol!

    • AppleSauce86

      Mean mug means that I am not interested. I am a very nice and friendly woman however men have taught me, through experience, that if I smile and speak that it gives them the green light to try and talk to me and ask for my number. It is so stressful trying to convince a man that you are not interested after you smile at him or speak. They keep trying and keep trying. I don’t have time to smile at a man and spend the next. 10-15 minutes convincing each man that I am not interested. Your best bet is to understand that her mean mug is a sign of disinterest. Don’t be mad at her. She is just trying to avoid the repercussions of what will happen if she smiles or talks to you. Just enjoy her from afar and leave it at that. A woman who is interested will smile back.