Let’s Talk, Ladies: Are You Afraid Of The “S” Word?

June 24th, 2012 - By Jazmine Denise Rogers

thisisyouconscience.com

Let’s say it together: submission. For years its been said that black women are too strong, too controlling, too aggressive, too manipulative. On the other hand, we hear white women constantly praised in the media by comedians and rappers alike for being the exact opposite. While comedians aren’t the ones who should be taken seriously, you can guarantee that there is some truth behind every “LOL”. What it seems to all come down to is the issue of submissiveness. It appears that the common perception is that black women have a hard time to being submissive to the men they are in relationships with. Now, I’m sure some will argue to the death that a woman submitting to her man is a very old fashioned concept; however, the truth of the matter is that it is the natural order of things for men to be leaders and head of their households.

We’ve all witnessed the controlling woman who acts as her man’s mother as opposed to his partner. We’ve also witnessed manipulative woman who snatches her guy’s manhood away by constantly belittling him. Then, there’s the more normal woman who has her own, can do for herself and doesn’t “need” a man for anything. But is the problem really that black women don’t want to be submissive? Over the years submissiveness has been pegged as a sign of weakness and in the twenty-first century the last thing that women want is to be pegged as “weak”. Or,  is it that they cannot be submissive because so many men have proven themselves unworthy or unreliable?  I mean, no one wants to follow or submit to a person who will lead them down a path of destruction. Possibly it is because of this that many of us were never given then opportunity to learn what it means to allow a man to take the lead. Many can attest to having watched their mothers assume the roles of both dad and mom, nurturer and protector, homemaker and provider so when the times comes for they themselves to share those roles and responsibilities with a man, they are unable to. I remember sitting there mortified as my mom, my aunt and I sat around shooting the breeze one day and my aunt divulged details of my parents’ wedding that  I had never heard before. Apparently during the exchanging of vows it was my mother’s turn and all was well until she got to the point where she was supposed to vow to “love, honor, and obey”. The entire wedding party, the reverend, the wedding guests, and my dad stood there stunned as she refused to repeat those three words. My heart sank as I thought about my dad standing there in his white tux with beads of sweat forming on his forehead as his new bride found difficulty in promising to honor and obey him. Granted, my parents got married pretty young, twenty-one years old to be exact. So, I’m sure maturity had something to do with it. But, I just had to know truth. My curiosity had gotten the best of me. “Ma, why didn’t you just say it?” I asked one day. “I don’t know, Jaz. I really thought they had taken that part out of the vows,” she replied. Now I’ll admit, promising to love, honor, and obey in front of a church full of family and friends is the ultimate act of submission. Well, maybe not the love part, but honor and obey part… absolutely. When I reflect on my grandmother’s relationship with my grandfather, however, I can totally understand my mom’s reluctancy to repeat those words after the reverend. There was never that example there of what it looks like for a wife to submit to her husband because my grandfather was rarely ever there.

Throughout history black women have been forced to bear many burdens, which is why many of us are so strong-willed and independent, something in which we shouldn’t be apologetic about. We were built strong to last long, but maybe it is a matter of having character of multiple dimensions. Maybe it is about knowing when to take charge and when to follow the leadership of another, when to be “hard” and when to be “soft”.

Sound off ladies: Do you think black women have issues with being submissive ? Should women even submit to men at all? 

Jazmine Denise is a New York City based Lifestyle & Relationship writer. Follow her on Twitter @jazminedenise

 

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  • Fly_AK_Chica

    Maybe because they are too busy chasing submissive MEN who look like women!!

  • Tia

    I agree with Jamilah 100%. My husband and I strive to live a saved life. Sometimes its a challenge for me to be submissive but I have to remind myself that I want to live a life that is pleasing to God and he instructed me through his word to submit to my husband. I believe that any woman regardless of race, that is single and are the head of their household may have a hard time adjusting to be submissive. It is not easy to fully let go after you been in charge and making household decisions without someone elses input. I think some men go over board with being submissive. God did not say we as wives have to take being treated a certain way or for the man to be controlling in a way that is not Godly.

  • Herm

    Coincidentally sisters dont want to submit and look at the marriage statistics and bastard kids running around no man wants to deal with that submit or hug that pillow

    • Jeanette

      Actually hugging a pillow would be better…I’m just saying. Is not a threat if that’s what you’re saying unless you’re talking to a desperate woman.

  • Rashida

    This article gave me some insight that maybe I am afraid of being submissive. I don’t want to be controlled, but I believe there is a happy medium out there and I am going to do my best to find that cord so both of us are happy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jessicajdagraca Jessica Jasmine DaGraca

    I am not married, but I have discussed this issue with my boyfriend, because I wanted to know what makes a head of household, and what the roles would be. I believe that the role of the husband is as the provider and protector, and that a woman SHOULD submit to her HUSBAND. In that respect, I do not believe that submission should be taken advantage of. I believe that submitting to your husband means that you are allowing him to take the role as the head of your household, and that you trust that he is able to fullfill the duties. With that being said, I believe it does not mean that you should be subjected to disrespect or belittling.

  • FromUR2UB

    I can submit to a man who has demonstrated that he can HANDLE the reins – of the situation, that is – but is also respectful toward me. I don’t like domineering men…the kind who think they’re going to dick-tate to a woman just because he’s a man, but doesn’t know anything. ; P

  • Ladybug94

    I think most women don’t want to submit to a man who is not mature and who is not emotionally stable or able to handle that responsibility. I wouldn’t want to follow someone who doesn’t know where they are going.

  • www.myjuiceradio.com

    I think many women believe the term “submissive” or “submission” has a negative and/or weak connotation to it, and that is why many women are hesitant to do so. First and foremost, both the man and woman need to submit to God, and then to each other. When there is mutual, sincere respect, than neither the woman or man should have an issue trusting and relaying
    (or submitting) on/to each other.

    As far as this being unique to Black Women, let’s look at it from a social context. Black Women bear the brunt of racism, sexism, internal racial conflict and the list goes on. So let’s be honest, our men (not all Black Men) have not been the best at protecting and uplifting us as women, so being trusting and relaying on our men (I use the term “trusting” and “relaying”, instead of “submission”) may not come easy.

    Now, just because submitting or trusting may not come easy, that does not mean it cannot be learned. If you have a good, honest & responsible man, it makes sense to trust him. However, if you are with a dirt bag, then, of course he is not worthy of submission, trust or your time.

    At the end of the day, both partners need to respect the leadership qualities in each other. You should compliment each other, where one is weak the other is strong.

    Last, I have encountered several White women who are over bearing, domineering, manipulative and all those other things that society puts on Black Women.

    I wish Black Women were not so under the scrutiny of society… why don’t we start analyzing White Women?? Let’s look at how many White men marry Asian women, because Asian women are considered more “submissive”. Food for thought…

    • Blackhawk

      If it weren’t for black men, you wouldn’t have been able to sit here and type the crap u just said. Learn your history and you know thousands of black men sacrificed their lives so you can have the life that you have now.

      • www.myjuiceradio.com

        I am fully aware of my history, my present and my future. Just as Black men sacrificed, so did and still do, Black women. Black Women are the back bone of our community.

      • www.myjuiceradio.com

        I am fully aware of my history, my present and my future. Just as Black men sacrificed, so did and still do, Black women. Black Women are the back bone of our community.

    • Jeanette

      Finally someone with some sense actually replied.

  • Msmykimoto2u

    As someone below stated, the man has to be worth submitting to and I have yet to find that man. (i’m only 24 so I still have time) I cannot stand the men who expect every woman to submit willingly to then but don’t want to do anything worthy of it in return.

  • curiosity.killed.the.cat

    Like the article suggests, the idea of being submissive is a very old school concept. I don’t think it is a question of a black or white thing as a question of a right or wrong thing. The word submissive has a root word of submit in its etymology and to submit implies to serve or to give in. Call me eglatarian if you will but relationships should be based on equality. There is nothing wrong with catering to your man but being submissive may be a TAD bit much.

    • Mrsadkiah

      Thank you. I”m sick of all these “submissive has a bad connotation…it’s really not bad” or “it’s natural for the man to be the head of the household women should submit” comments on here. And any Black women who disagrees is angry or a man-eater right? Whatever. Submissive means what it means. There is no “negative connotation” it IS negative to think that one person (always the woman) should have to submit to be in a relationship. There should be an equal respect for each person in the relationship. I know what situations are better for him to take the lead and vice versa. This whole “the woman should be submissive” is outdated for a reason. It’s 2012. I’m just glad I found a good man who doesn’t believe I should submit to him an am an “angry Black woman” for not wanting to.

      • ma

        Pow! Couldn’t have said it better

  • Lashadi

    Tired of seeing people eat up this submission crap and making it a race issue. I don’t submit, I cooperate and work as a team to achieve mutual goals. It doesn’t make sense to me to give one person less responsibility for how your lives together turn out when you both can be equally responsible

    • Mrsadkiah

      Perfect. Didn’t know how to put it into words myself. You said it all. No one in the relationship should “submit”….unless they’re cool with that of coures. I am not. My man and I cooperate. He lets me take charge when it’s fit and I do the same for him.

    • Trina

      Right on the money Lashadi

    • Jeanette

      My sentiments exactly and I’m tired of the so called “Christian” man using submission as a tool to get try and get their way and feed their egos. I submit to God. I do not become under the lordship of my husband once I get married there is only 1 Lord in my life and he does not walk this earth. Funny you hardly ever hear men over emphasizing their duty to love their wives especially when Paul has devoted twice as words to husbands than he does wives. Husbands and husbands in training need to read daily and apply 1 Corinthians 13 and they may have a better marriages.

  • Just saying!’

    I agree with Rhonda. I don’t think the goal is to be submissive…that’s something that should happen naturally when youre in love. I also have no interest in being like white women either so I wish we would stop comparing…I reall don’t care how they do their thing. Besides most men become submissive when they fall in love too…why ask us to naturally be that way?? Please. (but yes because of the history of black women…submission is difficult to swallow)

    • Jeanette

      Exactly, another person with some sense to add to the conversation. When you are in a relationship you naturally submit to the other person if you don’t then the relationship is doomed from the get go. And once you get married and either 1 of you stop doing this then you will encounter problems. Period.

  • bluekissess

    As of right now I’m only submissive to God. I really don’t see anything wrong with it. Submission is the perfect opportunity to not be controlling. You can “trust” that your partner has your best interest at heart.

    It’s a time and a place type of thing. My grandmother has always said that it’s ok to let a man “think” he’s in control.

    I also think submission comes with experience. A woman can be comfortable with who she is, has experienced relationships and knows what it takes to have a long lasting relationship

  • http://www.facebook.com/jamilah.frazier Jamilah Farag Frazier

    I submit to my husband because I trust him and I know he has my best interest in mind. He asks my opinion before he makes a decision because he trusts me and I have his best interest in mind. It is not easy to submit to a man, but then again not every man is strong or selfless enough to carry the burden of being The Head of the House.

    • tawanda

      I love this article and your answer. Im not married but want to be and have fought with that word submissive for a while..but you sum up my thought in a nut shell! Submissive doesnt mean ruling over each other..its about trusting your man and allowing him to take the lead from God because if he is a God fearing man to start with and he takes direction from God from the start, then where can he go wrong? God said that a husband should treat his wife and show her love as he would do the church…and i believe that there is the purest and most unconditional form ever. :)

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/TUEXVVHBFHYJ5T36VNTAD3PYTQ Cool Breeze

        Nobody is going to marry you and Jamilah Frazier will be divorced within a years time.

        • Msmykimoto2u

          Lol, sounds like a bitter un married fool to me :)

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/TUEXVVHBFHYJ5T36VNTAD3PYTQ Cool Breeze

            Thanks,but I don’t remember asking for you opinion. Now have a seat and stfu.

            • Msmykimoto2u

              Thats why this is a public blog where asking for others opinions isnt a requirement. Oh, and please retire the “have a seat” comment. Its so played out now. Thanks bitter unmarried person! =)

        • hatesalame

          Now why d you guys even respond to Cool Breeze, he or she obviously waits for MN to post new articles so he can get his rocks off making controversial statements eating Hotpockets in his mom’s basement. Cool Breeze your nurse is waiting fro you its time to get your diaper changed and get off the computer.

  • Korey

    Submissiveness has this connotation of being a doormat. And really, what man can stand behind a woman that doesn’t have a backbone? I’ve been there. I’ve let the guy take the lead and watched him fall for someone else that had a backbone. It’s so confusing and annoying to know that you have to yield to the gentleman but what if your yielding leads to his leaving?

    • bluekissess

      I don’t think that had anything to do with submission I think that jerk wasn’t for you in the beginning. He didn’t have enough backbone he “fell” for someone else. Maybe he mixed submission with controlling

    • Rhonda Chambers

      At the end of the day, you jut have to be yourself. Black men especially are unpredictable and many don’t know what they want in a woman anyway. Be YOURSELF. And if that’s not good enough, dude can just kick rocks. He’s not your other half anyway.

      • Jeanette

        Rhonda, I couldn’t agree with you more…I don’t even have anything to add to this except “well said!”

    • Miss Anonymous

      I agree, I know too many men who believe submission to mean a woman is a door mat for them. i knew this one woman who was married to this guy and everything he needed, he expected his wife to do it even if it meant her having to leave work to do it for him. One time she had gotten surgery and she had to use my mother’s help because “she has her friends and her mother to help her if she need it”. He expected her to do stuff for him because he was the husband and his wife is to submit to him.

  • Rhonda Chambers

    Submission is EARNED not automatically given simply because you’re a man. A man should submit to his wife in certain ways too.Black people can’t have healthy relationships while trying to live like Europeans. Kings and Queens submit to each other, with the King having a little bit more power in certain areas. It’s the nature of the Black Woman to be a strong leader. We’re not like other women and that needs to be accepted.

    • http://twitter.com/Imani_Badu Imani Badu

      I agree 100%.

    • http://twitter.com/Imani_Badu Imani Badu

      I agree 100%.

    • Simply Shan

      I totally agree!

    • FStubbs

      If you aren’t willing to submit to the man, you shouldn’t be with him. If you aren’t willing to submit to ANY man, then relationships aren’t for you, because they will be nothing but trouble for you and your man.

      • Yvette

        You are missing the point of Rhonda’s post. She did not say that women won’t submit. She said that submission is earned..meaning the man must handle his business in order for a woman to submit and the woman must handle her business in order for the man to submit. Submission is a two way street. It is never 1 person’s job to submit and the other just do what they want….that’s the reason a lot of relationships don’t work. Both parties must put in the work for it to be successful.

        • FStubbs

          No, I get her point. I disagree with the assertion that submission is earned. I’m saying if he’s not worthy of submission at the point you meet him, do not explore a relationship with him, and if you’re not willing to submit to anyone, explore other things in life than relationships. A relationship where the woman does not feel the man is worth submitting to is a recipe for trouble down the road. Call it whatever you will.

          I also disagree with the assertion that a man should submit to his wife. A man should delegate to his wife when appropriate (for example, if he’s a carpenter but she’s a MBA, obviously she knows more about finances than he does), but he is the head of the relationship. You make the head the tail and vice versa and you turn the organism upside down. If you have two heads, you have a monster.

          • Jeanette

            No man will ever delegate to me and no woman should allow that if she has any sense submission is a 2 way street and that’s why most marriages don’t last because of these men wanting to put themselves above a woman and not beside her these punks want to delegate but don’t want to do majority of the work. I wish my husband would delegate to me that will be the day!

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1089223111 Angelo Sherman

              That’s basically what Eve did in the Bible! Called Adam a punk and listened to a snake. God stepped in a pronounced them both ‘unfit’ to live in paradise.He told them both, that their children will suffer for a while,because this is a great sin.Read the book.There was no ‘apple’ involved.It said ‘fruit’. The fruit represented submission in this order: Children summit to parents. Women summit to men.Men summit to God.

          • Jeanette

            Fstubbs, I disagree with the assertion that husbands should not submit to their wives, if they are not ready to submit then perhaps they should explore other things in life instead of marriage. Who are you to tell someone what they should explore other things in life? I’ll bet you aren’t even married and if you are you are probably henpecked. These type of men are usually the ones who want to talk all big and bad but are really the “mouse” of thehouse. And if you aren’t married you WILL change your view if you ever get married or you will end up alone. Everyone knows the woman holds the power in the relationship and is the “head honcho”…don’t get it twisted…we control the climate in our home…we can make it real hot or real cold based on how we are treated.

    • KIR12

      The root of this is from Feminist (I want but don’t NEED a man). How’s that working out for black women? In the last 50 years black women have went from the women with the
      highest rate of marriage to the lowest. All black social issues stem from this which leads to dysfunctional homes, schools and communities. Today 31 percent of African
      American women by their early forties have never married as compared to
      only 9 percent of White, 11 percent of Asian , and 12 percent of Latino
      women in the same age group. Black illegitimacy went from 24% to 72%
      (85%+ in the very worst ghettos), 50% abortions of all black
      pregnancies, overcrowding of abandoned/abused black kids in CPS, blacks
      kids have 50% H.S. dropout rates and 15 to 20% unemployment (46% for
      teens), only 7% of businesses are black, crime is out of control and
      black families are now 3rd and 4th generational welfare recipients with
      generation poverty.

      • FStubbs

        Nothing wrong with “I want but don’t need a man”. There is a problem with “I want a man but he must be perfect and everything is on my terms or I can do bad by myself”. Though the problems in your post are due to other factors than whether a woman submits in a relationship or not.

        • Carla Kah

          No one is perfect. It’s all about realizing that relationships are partnerships AND that both (men and women) need to adjust in the relationship in order for it to work. BOTH need to be focused on one direction. A relationship between a black female lawyer and a black male receptionist, that are compatible when it comes to eachothers characters, can work if the woman doesn’t belittle the guy for having less (but appreciate his good traits) and the man doesn’t have a problem with having less either (and doesn’t leech of of her either and appreciates her good traits).

      • FStubbs

        I think my comment got chewed up. Just saying that there’s nothing wrong with “I want but don’t need a man.” It’s the “take me as I am and I have no desire to do better, but you must be perfect or I can do bad all by myself” attitude that causes problems. That being said, the problems in your post are due to a lot of other factors.

      • Jeanette

        The route of this doesn’t stem from feminism stems from mysoganistic men like you. Why do men insert themselves in conversations that don’t concern them? I mean damn you men are really the new women of this century…yet you consider yourself men?

        • Jeanette

          I meant “root”. I’m using my voice activated system on my phone so sometimes words are not come out correctly.

          • Jeanette

            *Misogynistic

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1089223111 Angelo Sherman

          Women post on men forums all the time! Or will take a man’s garment and ‘feminize’ it.The conversation is about men,but addressed to women.That’s part of the problem,when women figure out that they don;t need a man for anything not even sex,there’s a price to pay for the divine perfect order and the laws of nature.We are reaping the consequences from a previous generation. (no disrespect to you personally)

    • Adrina

      Submission is earned PRIOR to the marriage not AFTER, right? If it’s after then you clearly don’t trust your man will make the decisions to lead your family, in turn, there should be no marriage.

  • Roni1

    I disagree with the difference between white and black women. It is more about being your real self at the beginning of a relationship than being your fake self in the end. White women appear to submit to get the man, but it is different after the ring. Most white men will attest to the “change”. These type of stereotypes are what keep black women pigeon-holed. Like I told my brother who refuses to date black girls after one bad experience: you chose a crazy one. One black woman messes up and it is generalized to a issue in that segment of the population. A white woman messes up and it is an anomaly that has to be explained in a two hour Dateline special.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/TUEXVVHBFHYJ5T36VNTAD3PYTQ Cool Breeze

      Now apply that same theory to ignorant black women who date one or two black men and then automatically assume ALL BLACK MEN ARE BAD. Or, how about the black women who assume black men are a certain way from watching television shows. I know a blk woman now who has never dated black men but she assumes we are all a certain way from the dumb shows she watches on tv.

      • FromUR2UB

        What IS this? Vagenvy (vagina envy)? You never have anything pleasant to say, and because of the pattern of cattiness in your comments, I’ve begun to think either you’re not a man, or not one who likes women. I can see why you and one other poster have so many problems with black women, and probably women in general: you whine too much. No woman likes a crybaby man. You’re stuck in a groove where all you do is complain about the big, bad, black woman. Let it go!

        • FStubbs

          And most of the women in these topics complain about the men, so all’s fair. Interesting discussions, though, that’s why I’m here

          • FromUR2UB

            I don’t recall seeing your handle/name before.
            I don’t like it when the women go on the “black men are no good” harangue, either. But, why are men only showing up for the gripes? I don’t think anyone would mind men commenting on the site, if it weren’t only the black-women bashers who show up. Maybe the ones who like black women, are too busy being with black women to even know the site exists. But none of this tearing down, back and forth, is doing anything useful. I don’t even think it’s makes anybody FEEL better.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1089223111 Angelo Sherman

      Me and millions of blk men and your brother must have dated the SAME black woman.My dark skinned cousin,she asked me the other day “I hope you’re not dating black women?”. She said they “are crazy you know.”..My reply in front of her white son in law…” I love black women”.

  • MedPassion

    Dear Lawd, how many women are gonna go off on this article…

  • JD

    #teamsubmission lol

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/TUEXVVHBFHYJ5T36VNTAD3PYTQ Cool Breeze

    Black women are unable to submit because they have been programmed for the last 100yrs to be ignorant, loud, and aggressive.

    • bluekissess

      Programmed by Willie Lynch (Google him) I’ve seen you numerous times complain about this site but yet you still read the articles and comment.

      • http://twitter.com/Imani_Badu Imani Badu

        That’s what I will never understand. People come here to complain…but they’re here everyday. Womp.

    • Msmykimoto2u

      @AngryUnmarriedPerson (aka Cool Breeze) just curious to know what race you are making look bad by making such ignorant comments. wow you must live a sad little life lol